Need urgent help with seat arosa rear brakes

[mat2622]

Hi
I am new to this site and also new to the seat arosa took it for an mot and it failed on rear brakes i was told as it has stood for over a year may just need adjusting. However i have tried this and although the drum is now quite tight to turn still when i press the brake pedal i am just about able to turn the rear wheel i have adjusted them as far as it as alowed me but still no joy PLEASE PLEASE any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance matthew

 

[Boo]

Hmmm did you change the bearings at all ?

 

[ArosaRacer]

there are adjusters inside the car, behind the hand brake under a small cover

 

[mat2622]

hi i have adjusted the handbrake adjusters and the hand brake is just above the mot standared its the footbrake i am having problems with on the back when footbrake is pressed with engine running and with out i can still turn the rear wheels with the foot brake applied even though i have adjusted the adjuster inside the drums as far as they will allow me i am wondering if it could be the cylinders on both sides as the car was parked up for over a year i am stuck and car has to go back for retest in 2 days and the brakes are the only thing stopping me.

 

[lunalupi]

I thought the foot brake works the front wheels (with a small amount of force to the back) while the handbrake locks the back wheels - if so, then what you have is normal, the back wheels should not fully lock with the foot brake on.

Although my dad says there should be a little valve on the brake lines to the back wheels (or it may be built into the master cylinder), which limits the pressure to the back wheels to stop them locking up before the front wheels - he suggests yours may be stuck.

 

[mat2622]

hi many thanks for that i am going to try and bleed them but there is a def problem as mot station told me they need adjusting or replacing but the shoes are in perfect condition so there must be a fault somewhere will try and look for the valve you mentioned tommorow. thanks all for your help if any other suggestions or advice please feel free need all the help and advice i can get.

 

[CatB1]

I thought the foot brake works the front wheels (with a small amount of force to the back) while the handbrake locks the back wheels - if so, then what you have is normal, the back wheels should not fully lock with the foot brake on.

Although my dad says there should be a little valve on the brake lines to the back wheels (or it may be built into the master cylinder), which limits the pressure to the back wheels to stop them locking up before the front wheels - he suggests yours may be stuck.

The footbrake operates front & back wheels together, the rears are normally through a proportioning valve to stop the rears locking up before the front. With the footbrake applied, car stationary, the rear wheels should definately not rotate.

Does the handbrake stop the wheels rotating? If they dont it would be indicate a problem with the shoes. If they do I would suspect the rear wheel brake cylinders.

Pete

 

[mat2622]

hi guys thanks for your replies i have adjusted the rear brake adjuster in each drum and the handbrake travel has now gone from 6 notches to 3 but the drums still rotate with brake pedal pressed the cylinders are not seized and freely move and there is no air lock and the shoes are in perfect condition i am wondering if it is to do with the pressure valve or somet stopping the rear wheels locking with the handbrake on the drums will not move which is correct but they do only slightly with a lot of grunt and force from me arms i admit they are hard to turn but they do turn slightly each time. i am gonna put it back in hopefully tomorow for retest and see what the mot bloke says. he told me origanly the rear brakes were only producing half what they should be at the time of mot and i am unable to test them now i have adjusted them other than turning them by hand.

 

[Pond]

Hi
i'm new here, and i know a lot of Forums encourage people to start new threads rather than tag onto ancient ones, but this mystifies me sometimes, when all the info is there in a thread, with possibly useful details to whoever finds it, albeit (in this case) 15 years later :-

I am struggling with this exact problem, same as O.P., and i am retired Trade so quite humbling. If anyone picks this up, and has found the cause due to the same experience, then it would make my day.
So symptoms are much the same as O.P. but only on one wheel, and MOT Tester did me a favour one year ago by letting me go with an advisory, so stripped off wheel and brake drum to have another head-scratching session as MOT due soon.

Things that it isn't:

1/ Drum hardly worn and not distorted (41k miles)
2/ Brake shoes hardly worn, plenty of life left.
3/ Slave cylinder, as it's as good as new/replaced a year ago.
4/ Air in this wheel's hydralic system.
5/ Brake shoes are not wet/have never shown signs of being wet with brake fluid.
6/ Fluid leak anywhere.

The handbrake works fine and even favours the "bad" wheel slightly.
I'm trying to think outside the box, but it's such a subtle problem, it's going to be a pretty wacky solution. even wondering if the proportioning valve can favour one circuit/starve the other. Another thought is that models were fitted with slightly different shoe dimensions, that the brake shoes are somehow distorted from new or during use. I've also tried to get the auto-adjust to advance one click without success, drum comes off fairly easily, but not overly so - it's the same for both rear wheels. I am going to heavily de-glaze drum and shoes in an effort to improve matters slightly, which does work, but not for long.

If I manage to just pass MOT this time then i wiil reluctantly fit new shoes as a last resort, but they don't need replacing.

It's a strange one..

 

[Pond]

bump? I know it's an old car but...

 

[Tell]

Trust you work out your issue. For what it's worth ProTyres fitted my brake assembly backwards once. Left / right. It worked that way till the dealer said they are on backwards. Lot cheaper than a main dealer but assembled the wrong way round. Found at the MOT. Paid £50 to put on correctly. This year they are saying scratched but advisory. Question is do I risk Protyres cheaper solution in the next 12 months or pay the dealer. We'll see. Cost benefit analysis fitting backwards with a £50 charge is cheaper than a main dealer, although they are very good. You can't go wrong with non chain dealers. Think I'll mention get them fitted the right way round this time or I'll help the dealers profit margins.

 

[Pond]

Trust you work out your issue. For what it's worth ProTyres fitted my brake assembly backwards once. Left / right. It worked that way till the dealer said they are on backwards. Lot cheaper than a main dealer but assembled the wrong way round. Found at the MOT. Paid £50 to put on correctly. This year they are saying scratched but advisory. Question is do I risk Protyres cheaper solution in the next 12 months or pay the dealer. We'll see. Cost benefit analysis fitting backwards with a £50 charge is cheaper than a main dealer, although they are very good. You can't go wrong with non chain dealers. Think I'll mention get them fitted the right way round this time or I'll help the dealers profit margins.

Thank you for reply Tell - what you have suggested is the sort of unusual occurrence that might fit the bill so i will check this next time i removed drums just out of interest.

Meanwhile... it does look as though i might have found the culprit but it makes no sense. thinking it through i decided to try the footbrake and also the handbrake with the drum removed as this should advance the auto-adjust mechanism enough to prevent fitting the drum back. The shoes stayed exactly as they were and so i looked at the mechanism again although i knew it was all free and on re-inspection, it still was.. As a last ditch attempt i manually ratcheted the adjuster up around 3 clicks and could still put the drum back but it did feel as though there was less clearance. sure enough, footbrake was now locking wheel properly plus handbrake now only 3 clicks to "full on". It looks as though this has finally fixed this, but i'm still my mystified as to why the mechanism was sticking. I will post again after MOT.