2017 ST FR 184 DSG Upgrades

[rendeverance]

Hi all,

I got my 2017 ST FR 184 DSG currently on 62k in April, just done the timing belt, pumps, full service, DSG service and changed the heater matrix... Wow that all cost me, (1500, i'd budgeted 800 when I got it, as I knew the timing belt but not the heater matrix, or what the dog service would cost, DOH!, was doing the losing coolant / blowing it out the expansion tank on regen thing, thanks to this forum I knew what it was, thanks guys).

Anyway, now everything is done, save a small oil leak that's in the engine bay but just trying to trace that.

I am coming from a much faster car, I know I could have got a cupra and would have loved it but this was available and I often do a 1000 mile round trip so economy balance had to be met, unfortunately.

I'm looking at mapping, what are people's views on mapping Vs dtuk box? Any RR figures from ppl on here?

My criticisms of the car save the occasional jerk on shift from the box, still getting used to a dsg coming from manual for, well, always... Are the brakes and suspension.

I'd like to, without making the ride too harsh, stop her leaning as much in the corners. Suspension suggestions? I was thinking to fit cupra suspension? Not too worried about ride height, but I'd drop a few mm.

As for brakes, they are inadequate imo, already, especially being DSG... So, im thinking to fit cupra calipers and disks, anyone done this? Or have better suggestions?

Thanks in advance, I'm not planning to spend a fortune as I'm planning on a new project car next year, but this will be my daily for some time yet, so would like it to be a little more planted, stop a little better, and go as well as it can. Might take it to the ring for fun as I love that place (but no chance on stock brakes imo)

TIA

 

[Glosphil]

You say the brakes are inadequate. Never found that with my 2018 FR. Discs, pads & tyres OK?

It always amuses me to see cars where large brakes are fitted + Chinese low cost tyres.

 

[rendeverance]

Also P.S... any suggestions on reducing the tramping / wheel hop when the fronts lose traction, that's annoying but also feels like it will do damage. Different tyres have been suggested, it's currently on the OEM recommended Michelin at the front, I've recently fitted eagle F1 at the back and planning to fit two of them once the Michelin are low

 

[rendeverance]

You say the brakes are inadequate. Never found that with my 2018 FR. Discs, pads & tyres OK?

It always amuses me to see cars where large brakes are fitted + Chinese low cost tyres.

It's not that they won't stop the thing, it's that it's possible to overheat them, relatively easily compared to my previous few cars. They certainly stop the thing in day to day they are plenty, but if I can reduce or eliminate fade, I'd like to.

 

[rendeverance]

... And no I'm not a silly heavy breaker, i typically get quite a long service life out of brakes. The discs and pads are relatively new, all genuine OEM

 

[Glosphil]

In over 50 years of driving I've never suffered brake fade except once on a short, twisting racing circuit in a standard 2005 Civic Type-S.

Brake fluid needs changing?

 

[H Rafiq]

Grab a dogbone mount. I’ve got a Powerflex one on my 5f Cupra.

 

[rendeverance]

In over 50 years of driving I've never suffered brake fade except once on a short, twisting racing circuit in a standard 2005 Civic Type-S.

Brake fluid needs changing?

Do you do a lot of track work? Also this is DSG so heavier on brakes then a manual. I suppose it's all about how hard you go, for me this isn't a track car, but I will, while my next project is in creation, still take this for a few circuits, and simply put the Nürburgring is not easy on brakes when you put in respectable lap times

I'm not trying to argue, I do push my cars very hard on occasion. I don't have crap tyres and believe it could stop better, or rather, more consistently. If I'm upping power, I'd feel more comfortable with better brakes.

Brake fluid is 4 weeks old, I won't change my position, moisture level was fine before the change, but did it anyway.

Will the cupra parts go straight on?

 

[rendeverance]

Grab a dogbone mount. I’ve got a Powerflex one on my 5f Cupra.

Brilliant, thank you, much appreciated... Anything to improve that, it's harder to modulate with the dsg and is mainly an issue coming onto busy damp roundabouts on rubbish Scottish roads

 

[H Rafiq]

Brilliant, thank you, much appreciated... Anything to improve that, it's harder to modulate with the dsg and is mainly an issue coming onto busy damp roundabouts on rubbish Scottish roads

I mainly noticed it from a standing start. It’s fine once rolling. Tyres and dogbone insert worked for me, not 100%, but helped a lot. Put it in Sport mode, and turn ESC off (if it’s dry n safe to of course). You’ll get to know the car and how hard to press then throttle. 100% throttle doesn’t always grip 100%.

 

[rendeverance]

I mainly noticed it from a standing start. It’s fine once rolling. Tyres and dogbone insert worked for me, not 100%, but helped a lot. Put it in Sport mode, and turn ESC off (if it’s dry n safe to of course). You’ll get to know the car and how hard to press then throttle. 100% throttle doesn’t always grip 100%.

Absolutely, standing starts... Thanks for the advice

 

[SuperV8]

Do you do a lot of track work? Also this is DSG so heavier on brakes then a manual. I suppose it's all about how hard you go, for me this isn't a track car, but I will, while my next project is in creation, still take this for a few circuits, and simply put the Nürburgring is not easy on brakes when you put in respectable lap times

I'm not trying to argue, I do push my cars very hard on occasion. I don't have crap tyres and believe it could stop better, or rather, more consistently. If I'm upping power, I'd feel more comfortable with better brakes.

Brake fluid is 4 weeks old, I won't change my position, moisture level was fine before the change, but did it anyway.

Will the cupra parts go straight on?

Yes the Cupra brakes will bolt on.
Road vs track brake requirements are completely different (the reason the Sub 8 has 370mm discs & Brembo 4 pots!) - Personally I would struggle to justify a whole new brake system (Cupra has bigger rear brakes also) for a couple of track sessions! I would just fit some track type pads.

Remap rather than a box for me. Check the Darkside video on this topic.

 

[rendeverance]

Yes the Cupra brakes will bolt on.
Road vs track brake requirements are completely different (the reason the Sub 8 has 370mm discs & Brembo 4 pots!) - Personally I would struggle to justify a whole new brake system (Cupra has bigger rear brakes also) for a couple of track sessions! I would just fit some track type pads.

Remap rather than a box for me. Check the Darkside video on this topic.

Thank you, that's brilliant, very much appreciated.

The cupra brakes are not expensive, so it's in my consideration, anyway. I might try some new pads first as you recommend, and see how it does.

I have seen the Darkside video, but a lot of praise seemed to be given on here for the dtuk box, I will see if I can find a reputable place which know this engine. I'm not sure exactly who best to use, I'm new to VW group stuff tbh. I've had and modded a lot of cars but this is my first VAG

 

[SuperV8]

I have seen the Darkside video, but a lot of praise seemed to be given on here for the dtuk box, I will see if I can find a reputable place which know this engine. I'm not sure exactly who best to use, I'm new to VW group stuff tbh. I've had and modded a lot of cars but this is my first VAG

When you remap an engine with an DSG box - the tuner will usually also 'remap' the DSG box as they have their own torque limiters which will hold back any engine upgrades - which would make me even more inclined to dismiss any tuning boxes for DSG cars.
The tuner can also increase clutch pack clamping forces so the DSG is 'happy' at the higher engine torque loads. Doubtful any tuning box will do this.

The 184 is quite torque limited as stock - so re-maps often see large gains in torque but not so much in power - I wouldn't believe any remaps quoting 220/225+BHP. The 184 is designed as an efficient/low emissions engine - with lots of cylinder head swirl and smaller responsive turbos. This cylinder head swirl ultimately limits maximum power potential for this engine no mater what turbo you bolt to it - still plenty for a road car!

 

[rendeverance]

When you remap an engine with an DSG box - the tuner will usually also 'remap' the DSG box as they have their own torque limiters which will hold back any engine upgrades - which would make me even more inclined to dismiss any tuning boxes for DSG cars.
The tuner can also increase clutch pack clamping forces so the DSG is 'happy' at the higher engine torque loads. Doubtful any tuning box will do this.

The 184 is quite torque limited as stock - so re-maps often see large gains in torque but not so much in power - I wouldn't believe any remaps quoting 220/225+BHP. The 184 is designed as an efficient/low emissions engine - with lots of cylinder head swirl and smaller responsive turbos. This cylinder head swirl ultimately limits maximum power potential for this engine no mater what turbo you bolt to it - still plenty for a road car!

Hi,

I am absolutely aware the bhp gain will be mild, but the torque gain would certainly be welcome, as that will make a bigger difference real world for me. You make a good point about the DSG tuning, Ive just had it serviced, would be interesting to see how much drivable it would be with a map.

Thank you for your responses and information, it's very helpful and appreciated.

I'm not unhappy with the car, I just like fettling. It's reasonably low mileage right now and I plan to keep it for a while, so I might as well do it now or not at all if I'm going to see the benefit. I do tend to keep my cars a long while.