DQ200 upgrade?

[Bluepower]

I've got a 2014 mk3 ST FR 1.8TSI with the weak DQ200..
This one already has the occassional 'torque limiter reached' error and has the occassional jerky take-off..
In the future I would like to swap the OEM turbo to either an IS20 or an IS38 to increase the power, but I know this gearbox can't handle the power-increase..

I'm trying to find information on upgrading/swapping to a DQ250 or DQ380/381, but I'm not finding any usefull information on swapping gearboxes..

Does anybody have any info on swapping the DQ200 to either an DQ250 or a DQ380/1?
As far as I'm aware, I would be looking at:
different flywheel
DSG gearbox
drive-shafts(??)
starter motor mated to the chosen gearbox
shifter cable(?)
mechatronic connector
DSG coolant lines
Coding

anything else?

 

[BigJase88]

Sell car buy 2.0l Cupra

 

[Glosphil]

Sell car buy 2.0l Cupra

Good advice.

 

[Bluepower]

Already looked into that.. But the price difference here in the Netherlands don't justify that....
Was already thinking of swapping a full Cupra engine+DQ250 if mine really shits himself...

 

[Kryton]

Been contemplating this too. Cost involved looks like manual conversion is a better bet but will only bother if / when mine fails

 

[queen]

You could just upgrade the clutch packs.

 

[mjj4]

I'm literally doing this at the moment - I'm documenting it in the readers ride section on here.

DQ250 upgrade isn't hard if you can get the parts together. You can also add in the VAQ differential then if you get a gearbox from a Cupra or GTI with Performance Pack.

I've put a Cupra engine in my FR so slightly different, but I've left the full stock FR 1.8TSI loom installed, and added into it.

You're pretty much bang on with what you'll need:

different flywheel- YES
DSG gearbox - YES
drive-shafts(??) - YES
starter motor mated to the chosen gearbox - Yes
shifter cable(?) - No the shifter can stay stock, I just had to change the end connector on it (2 minute job).
mechatronic connector - Yes, easily available online with pins.
DSG coolant lines - YES
Coding - YES - if you don't bother with the VAQ differential, then the coding is simple, there's a byte somewhere that says 6 speed box installed or 7 speed. Think it may have been for the Instruments. I'll be able to confirm this all if you do decide to do this.

You also need the DSG engine mount (ideally) as it has 3 bolts holding onto the box rather than 2 from the DQ200. The DQ200 mount will fit but won't be as strong with only 2 bolts. Not sure how much of a real world problem this really is.

The wiring is easy, there are 9 pins on both DQ200 and DQ250, so the connector just needs swapping and re-pinning.

If you get a DSG box from an MQB car, rather than an older DQ250, they have an immobiliser, so you'll need to get it de-immobilised. This can be done but as the Mechatronics is in the gearbox you'd have to either take the mechatronics out and send it somewhere, or get someone to come to you and do it directly through the DQ250 connector.

DQ200 is the worst bit about the 1.8TSI, so if you can upgrade to the DQ250, then defo go IS38. The 1.8TSI motor is very good, and can easily make over 370BHP with bolt on parts. Look at Polo GTI tuning as they use the same 1.8 TSI EA888.3 motors.

 

[Bluepower]

I'm literally doing this at the moment - I'm documenting it in the readers ride section on here.

DQ250 upgrade isn't hard if you can get the parts together. You can also add in the VAQ differential then if you get a gearbox from a Cupra or GTI with Performance Pack.

I've put a Cupra engine in my FR so slightly different, but I've left the full stock FR 1.8TSI loom installed, and added into it.

You're pretty much bang on with what you'll need:

different flywheel- YES
DSG gearbox - YES
drive-shafts(??) - YES
starter motor mated to the chosen gearbox - Yes
shifter cable(?) - No the shifter can stay stock, I just had to change the end connector on it (2 minute job).
mechatronic connector - Yes, easily available online with pins.
DSG coolant lines - YES
Coding - YES - if you don't bother with the VAQ differential, then the coding is simple, there's a byte somewhere that says 6 speed box installed or 7 speed. Think it may have been for the Instruments. I'll be able to confirm this all if you do decide to do this.

You also need the DSG engine mount (ideally) as it has 3 bolts holding onto the box rather than 2 from the DQ200. The DQ200 mount will fit but won't be as strong with only 2 bolts. Not sure how much of a real world problem this really is.

The wiring is easy, there are 9 pins on both DQ200 and DQ250, so the connector just needs swapping and re-pinning.

If you get a DSG box from an MQB car, rather than an older DQ250, they have an immobiliser, so you'll need to get it de-immobilised. This can be done but as the Mechatronics is in the gearbox you'd have to either take the mechatronics out and send it somewhere, or get someone to come to you and do it directly through the DQ250 connector.

DQ200 is the worst bit about the 1.8TSI, so if you can upgrade to the DQ250, then defo go IS38. The 1.8TSI motor is very good, and can easily make over 370BHP with bolt on parts. Look at Polo GTI tuning as they use the same 1.8 TSI EA888.3 motors.

Thanks for your reply!
Will you be making a lot of pictures and documenting everything??

Thanks in advance!

 

[Giuseppe Busso]

DQ200 is the worst bit about the 1.8TSI, so if you can upgrade to the DQ250, then defo go IS38. The 1.8TSI motor is very good, and can easily make over 370BHP with bolt on parts. Look at Polo GTI tuning as they use the same 1.8 TSI EA888.3 motors.

Hello from Greece. I own a manual 1.8 FR which is full stage2 now with stock IS12 and about 280ps/420Nm.

My setup is:
- Full 76mm exhaust, 100cpsi cat
- Do88 cooler
- Do88 charge pipes kit
- RTMG turbo muffler delete
- Ramair induction set with MST inlet & hose
- NGK RS7 spark plugs

if i get the IS38, which is at my plans, what else i need to reach 370bhp (375ps)?

Thanks...

 

[mjj4]

Hello from Greece. I own a manual 1.8 FR which is full stage2 now with stock IS12 and about 280ps/420Nm.

My setup is:
- Full 76mm exhaust, 100cpsi cat
- Do88 cooler
- Do88 charge pipes kit
- RTMG turbo muffler delete
- Ramair induction set with MST inlet & hose
- NGK RS7 spark plugs

if i get the IS38, which is at my plans, what else i need to reach 370bhp (375ps)?

Thanks...

You just need IS38 and Golf R stock HPFP, and a clutch if you haven't already. I'd say 370bhp and 490nm is achievable without doing any internal engine work, but just like the 2.0 ea888.3 at stage 3, no guarantees to how long it will last.

Search the internet for polo gti 1.8 stage 3 tuning (or even stage 4 with hybrid turbo and forged internals). The 1.8 has great potential.

 

[adam davies]

You just need IS38 and Golf R stock HPFP, and a clutch if you haven't already. I'd say 370bhp and 490nm is achievable without doing any internal engine work, but just like the 2.0 ea888.3 at stage 3, no guarantees to how long it will last.

Search the internet for polo gti 1.8 stage 3 tuning (or even stage 4 with hybrid turbo and forged internals). The 1.8 has great potential.

Get ready for crank walk as the thrust bearings can't take that power

 

[mjj4]

Get ready for crank walk as the thrust bearings can't take that power

This is just as much of a problem on the 2.0 EA888.3 engines. It's very uncommon considering how many engines are out there running happily, and it's certainly more of an issue on the manual gearbox cars, which the OP's is a DSG. It's not actually hard or expensive to upgrade the thrust washer as a preventative measure, but I'm not worried about it on either my 2.0 CJXH DSG or my 1.8 CJSA manual with clutch switch bypass.

If you have some evidence that I haven't seen I'd genuinely appreciate seeing it, in case I need to change my opinion and do something different than nothing

 

[ronnie69]

Does anyone here know if the 2018+ 1.8 TSI Leon SW DSG has the DQ200 gearbox or a later/different one? If known, do you know which version of DSG box precisely?
Thanks

 

[Kryton]

Thanks for the update. Do you have the part number for the gearbox mount you ordered? Also, did yours have an e-diff to start with? I've managed to get a diff from a Golf GTI Clubsport but as mine already had factory diff, I assume the coding will be easier for myself (we can all hope lol). Just got the immo-off done at Devils as box was from a mk7 golf r but was aware of this before I bought it. Turns out the R flywheel has 8 bolts rather than 6 so had to order one from a GTI / S3 spec car but thats the only hold up so far

 

[GlekkeMatrak]

There's literally people on this planet putting over 400Nm of torque through a software only tuned DQ200. Don't go through all the hassle buddy, just get it tuned properly. It's been handling my abuse mighty fine after the tune.

 

[mjj4]

There's literally people on this planet putting over 400Nm of torque through a software only tuned DQ200. Don't go through all the hassle buddy, just get it tuned properly. It's been handling my abuse mighty fine after the tune.

Personally as someone who's successfully done this swap, it is absolutely well worth it. A 1.8 or 2.0 EA888.3 with an IS38 (as OP is wanting) make close to 500nm on a stage 1 remap, so you're already limited by a DQ200 before you've really started.

I've driven both DQ200 and DQ250 equipped cars and the DQ250 is superior in everyway. The DQ200 is a weak gearbox, and the dry clutch packs just don't last in comparison to the wet clutch 250/381. If you can find someone to de-immobilise the box the whole project can be done in a long day, or weekend on a driveway, so if the parts can be obtained for reasonable cost it is a huge upgrade - plus you can have the VAQ differential which I'm not sure is a possibility to fit onto a DQ200?

 

[Kryton]

Ok, so turns out this doesn’t just bolt up. I misread several threads where people had done this swap but they have also done the engine swap. I have a golf r box, gti clubsport vaq, immo off done, new mech housing with seals, new 6 bolt flywheel, racingline oil cooler, all the fluids etc & even the steering loom to modify for the vaq, all ready to bolt up, but contrary to what several others have said on other forums, it does not bolt up to the 1.4 (mines Ibiza). The sump is several inches smaller so unless I now mess about with making an adapter plate then get a longer shaft, it’s not a simple swap like it is on the 1.8 & 2.0.
I agree with everything above re the 250 & 381 being the way to go, hence why I’ve just stuck 2.5k into bits & can definitely be done in a day on the bigger engines but I’m peeing in the wind on this without some serious customising (too wide, 1 mount less, diff in way of pipework). Bought Kevlar plates & a quaife diff instead so I can get the car back on the road asap rather that stuck on mates ramp. Will be fine for the power I have but after reading so many horror stories, last thing I wanted was it to fail at spa or ring.
Anyone interested in a gearbox upgrade lol? Really should have done a trial fit rather than basing on what some keyboard experts have said but s##t happens
still mythed as to how the 200 can be swapped to 250 on other engines but not on ea111 ea211 as looking through all variations online, the bellhousing looks almost identical on all 250 & 381 so logic would say any 200 can be upgraded but this definitely ain’t fitting

 

[Bluepower]

Ok, so turns out this doesn’t just bolt up. I misread several threads where people had done this swap but they have also done the engine swap. I have a golf r box, gti clubsport vaq, immo off done, new mech housing with seals, new 6 bolt flywheel, racingline oil cooler, all the fluids etc & even the steering loom to modify for the vaq, all ready to bolt up, but contrary to what several others have said on other forums, it does not bolt up to the 1.4 (mines Ibiza). The sump is several inches smaller so unless I now mess about with making an adapter plate then get a longer shaft, it’s not a simple swap like it is on the 1.8 & 2.0.
I agree with everything above re the 250 & 381 being the way to go, hence why I’ve just stuck 2.5k into bits & can definitely be done in a day on the bigger engines but I’m peeing in the wind on this without some serious customising (too wide, 1 mount less, diff in way of pipework). Bought Kevlar plates & a quaife diff instead so I can get the car back on the road asap rather that stuck on mates ramp. Will be fine for the power I have but after reading so many horror stories, last thing I wanted was it to fail at spa or ring.
Anyone interested in a gearbox upgrade lol? Really should have done a trial fit rather than basing on what some keyboard experts have said but s##t happens
still mythed as to how the 200 can be swapped to 250 on other engines but not on ea111 ea211 as looking through all variations online, the bellhousing looks almost identical on all 250 & 381 so logic would say any 200 can be upgraded but this definitely ain’t fitting

Too bad you bought the wrong gearbox... there are 1.4tsi engines with the DQ250 gearbox, like the VW Tiquan, Sharan and the Audi Q3.
Check out this thread for inspiration: https://www.drive2.ru/l/5290336/

 

[Kryton]

Ah ok. Every day is a school day. I bought the box I was told to by someone that was assisting then went silent so I’m gonna point the finger but put it down as a learning curve. I’ve messed with so many cars over the years that I’m not going to lose sleep over it but more annoyed by having yet more parts just laying around lol. So is it just the bellhousing that’s different do you know?

 

[Bluepower]

Afaik that is the only difference, yes