Wheel bearing issue. Or not.

[Swaitsy]

I thought would only be a matter of time before I was writing my first "help me" thread. Instead, it's manifested into more a "thoughts please" request. I'll try and keep it to the point..

So my Leon ST has been making a noise while driving that I can only really describe as a cross between a faint whirring and a distant helicopter. It's faint but it's definately there and appears to be coming from the front, I thought offside. I've looked through the forum at various wheel bearing related threads but I was fairly sure that's what it was anyway. As you drive the noise increases, becoming more noticable as the car gains speed. Largely from around 40mph upwards. Then it gets quieter as you slow down. It's only apparent when the car is moving, as opposed to sat idling, The missus doesn't notice it from the passenger side and if i lean forward in the drivers seat a few inches it becomes a lot harder to hear, only reappearing again as I sit back. Now, I've taken the wheels off and swapped them over, back to front. (That's a new tyre on the front) and there's no scuffs or scoring to the disc. No change.

So, I thought wheel bearing right? I contacted the dealer, the car's under warranty so they took it in and had a look, test drove it and aw that. They came back and said aye, it's a wheel bearing. But not the front offside, it's the front nearside. I went with it, so they changed it. Took it for a test drive, got up to about 50mph, noise is still there. Albeit a little bit quieter. I have to turn the radio off and lean towards the door a little to hear it but it's still there.

So I'm wondering; did they change the wrong bearing? Do both need changed? Is it a wheel bearing at all or have I just gone mental? I managed to record it (with the help of a passenger), if there's a way to upload the audio file. It's a late 2016 car by the way, with 38k on it.

 

[Woody_72]

I had a very similar issue recently. The annoying thing was, there was no wheel wobble at all and you couldn't hear anything spinning the wheels even with your ear pressed against the wing. Anyhow, the upshot of the tale is that I replaced both the front bearings myself and the noise totally went away. My mileage was ~70,000 miles, what's yours on? Top tip: If you do do it yourself, don't buy the bearings from Seat! They charge £165 per bearing. You can get SKF or FAG ones for £75-80 each from Autodoc.

 

[Swaitsy]

Exactly that! No wheel wobble, nothing when you spin the wheels, yet once I'm up to motorway speed there it is. Whum whum whum whum whum whum whum. I don't know how they figured it was coming from the passenger side to be honest. I took it out this morning and went for a drive, I was leaning into the passenger seat and hearing nothing but when I lean the other way it's pretty obvious. Actually, it's most apparent if you listen up close to where the drivers door meets the B pillar.

The tyre is new and the wheels have already been swapped, it's definitely not the front passenger side now as that bearing is brand new. I've given the dealer another shout and they seem to be keen to help. While the warranty covers it I'm going to use them to the full. I will have a look at Autodoc all the same though, as I'll no doubt need bits eventually. I know her car certainly does

Mine has just done 38500. I'd have thought one bearing going at that mileage to be a tad premature but for both to be on the way out seems odd, though not impossible. Unless of course, they simply changed the wrong one. Or I am indeed going doolally. Or... its the rear wheel. DUH DUH DUHHHH!

 

[cupra14]

If you're lucky the sound will be less (or more) on a bend (try left hand & right hand bends) and then you can be pretty sure it IS a bearing.

Got to say, it likely is...

 

[Swaitsy]

I will. I'm out and about just now so I'll give it a go see if I notice a difference

 

[Swaitsy]

Well, having tested that theory, there doesn't seem to be any difference in the noise as you're turning the wheel/going round bends. I've got it booked back in this week, I'm going to try and push them to change the other front bearing, but watch this space..

 

[SuperV8]

I managed to record it (with the help of a passenger), if there's a way to upload the audio file. It's a late 2016 car by the way, with 38k on it.

I would upload it to YouTube - and share the link.

 

[SuperV8]

Exactly that! No wheel wobble, nothing when you spin the wheels, yet once I'm up to motorway speed there it is. Whum whum whum whum whum whum whum. I don't know how they figured it was coming from the passenger side to be honest. I took it out this morning and went for a drive, I was leaning into the passenger seat and hearing nothing but when I lean the other way it's pretty obvious. Actually, it's most apparent if you listen up close to where the drivers door meets the B pillar.

The tyre is new and the wheels have already been swapped, it's definitely not the front passenger side now as that bearing is brand new. I've given the dealer another shout and they seem to be keen to help. While the warranty covers it I'm going to use them to the full. I will have a look at Autodoc all the same though, as I'll no doubt need bits eventually. I know her car certainly does

Mine has just done 38500. I'd have thought one bearing going at that mileage to be a tad premature but for both to be on the way out seems odd, though not impossible. Unless of course, they simply changed the wrong one. Or I am indeed going doolally. Or... its the rear wheel. DUH DUH DUHHHH!

Will be interesting to hear the outcome?
I have a 'feeling' my wheel bearings might need changing - but I can't feel any roughness when spinning the wheel/hub by hand and I can't locate the sound front/back/Left or Right - I can hear an increasing loud cyclic whum whum - the faster I go the louder it is - which is not transmission related, noise stays if I put it in neutral and coast - the noise is speed dependent, and much worse on rough tarmac. My tyres aren't directional or have any strange wear patterns - two front tyres are less than a year old.
The misses can't hear anything! so it's subtle - or maybe it's just me going crazy!
My car is 2015 at 99k miles.

 

[Woody_72]

I can empathise, that's exactly the situation I was in. They're pretty easy to change. I'll do a quick description in case anyone finds this thread in the future:

1. Jack corner up and put it on an axle stand and remove wheel. Pop out centre cap from the inside.
2. Put wheel back on and lower to ground.
3. Use a 24mm 12 point socket to loosen axle bolt. You will need a long pole, this thing is TIGHT.
4. Jack corner up and put on axle stand and remove wheel.
5. Remove caliper carrier bolts and hang whole assembly from the spring out of the way.
6. Remove disc retaining screw and brake rotor.
7. Remove dust shield.
8. Unscrew axle bolt half an inch and give it a few taps to start the axle moving then remove altogether.
9. Unscrew the three nuts underneath the end of the lower control arm.
10. Yank the lower control arm down so it disconnects from the ball joint.
11. You can now yank the steering knuckle so as to remove the end of the axle completely and expose the back of the casting.
12. Remove the three M12 triple square bolts.
13. A few taps of a lump hammer will pop the bearing out of the casting.
14: Do steps 12 to 1 in the reverse order (more or less, you'll see what I mean) .

It takes a bit of swearing and shoving to get everything to line back up but a combination of brute force, swearing and turning the steering back and forth it's not too bad of a job. From memory, the torque values are:

Axle bolts: 200nm plus 180 degrees.
M12 triple squares: 70nm plus 90 degrees.
Three nuts: 40nm plus 45 degrees.

 

[SuperV8]

I can empathise, that's exactly the situation I was in. They're pretty easy to change. I'll do a quick description in case anyone finds this thread in the future:

1. Jack corner up and put it on an axle stand and remove wheel. Pop out centre cap from the inside.
2. Put wheel back on and lower to ground.
3. Use a 24mm 12 point socket to loosen axle bolt. You will need a long pole, this thing is TIGHT.
4. Jack corner up and put on axle stand and remove wheel.
5. Remove caliper carrier bolts and hang whole assembly from the spring out of the way.
6. Remove disc retaining screw and brake rotor.
7. Remove dust shield.
8. Unscrew axle bolt half an inch and give it a few taps to start the axle moving then remove altogether.
9. Unscrew the three nuts underneath the end of the lower control arm.
10. Yank the lower control arm down so it disconnects from the ball joint.
11. You can now yank the steering knuckle so as to remove the end of the axle completely and expose the back of the casting.
12. Remove the three M12 triple square bolts.
13. A few taps of a lump hammer will pop the bearing out of the casting.
14: Do steps 12 to 1 in the reverse order (more or less, you'll see what I mean) .

It takes a bit of swearing and shoving to get everything to line back up but a combination of brute force, swearing and turning the steering back and forth it's not too bad of a job. From memory, the torque values are:

Axle bolts: 200nm plus 180 degrees.
M12 triple squares: 70nm plus 90 degrees.
Three nuts: 40nm plus 45 degrees.

Thanks for sharing, think I should get a 12 point/triple square set!
What were your bearings like when you had them off? Did they seem/feel knackered?

 

[Woody_72]

They didn't feel too bad. One felt good, tight and smooth. The other one felt fairly loose and slightly rough.

 

[SuperV8]

They didn't feel too bad. One felt good, tight and smooth. The other one felt fairly loose and slightly rough.

Got two new bearings - will be changing soon - will let the forum know the outcome.

 

[SuperV8]

I can empathise, that's exactly the situation I was in. They're pretty easy to change. I'll do a quick description in case anyone finds this thread in the future:

1. Jack corner up and put it on an axle stand and remove wheel. Pop out centre cap from the inside.
2. Put wheel back on and lower to ground.
3. Use a 24mm 12 point socket to loosen axle bolt. You will need a long pole, this thing is TIGHT.
4. Jack corner up and put on axle stand and remove wheel.
5. Remove caliper carrier bolts and hang whole assembly from the spring out of the way.
6. Remove disc retaining screw and brake rotor.
7. Remove dust shield.
8. Unscrew axle bolt half an inch and give it a few taps to start the axle moving then remove altogether.
9. Unscrew the three nuts underneath the end of the lower control arm.
10. Yank the lower control arm down so it disconnects from the ball joint.
11. You can now yank the steering knuckle so as to remove the end of the axle completely and expose the back of the casting.
12. Remove the three M12 triple square bolts.
13. A few taps of a lump hammer will pop the bearing out of the casting.
14: Do steps 12 to 1 in the reverse order (more or less, you'll see what I mean) .

It takes a bit of swearing and shoving to get everything to line back up but a combination of brute force, swearing and turning the steering back and forth it's not too bad of a job. From memory, the torque values are:

Axle bolts: 200nm plus 180 degrees.
M12 triple squares: 70nm plus 90 degrees.
Three nuts: 40nm plus 45 degrees.

I noticed whilst checking the Seat Manual regarding the large drive shaft bolt:

Quote:

It must be ensured the wheels do not yet touch the floor when the drive shaft is being tightened. Otherwise wheel bearing may be damaged.

- have a second mechanic apply the brakes
- tighten bolt to 200Nm
- lower vehicle onto its wheels
- turn bolt 180degs further.

Also it mentions to remove nut/coupling from anti-roll bar. Maybe this will make it easier to re-assemble?

 

[Woody_72]

That's a fair point but very impractical for the average joe. Every video I've seen of people removing or reassembling the wheel bolt has done it with the wheel on the ground.

Your second point is a good one, I've read the same thing. You'll be fighting one less thing when trying to get the ball joint back into the control arm. I, however, am an optimistic idiot and didn't bother .

 

[SETTOL]

Have you checked your tyres for uneven wear on the tread pattern? Had the same issue with mine and it turned out to be both rear tyres causing what can only be described as a wheel bearing noise...

 

[Swaitsy]

Aye another thanks for that extended info from you both. Particularly Woody's guide, though I couldn't comment personally with regards to the (potential damage) issue with removing the drive shaft bolt as bearings are one thing I've yet to have a go at myself. I'd be keen to hear how you got on with yours SuperV8. As for me, for the moment I'm making full use of that warranty so it's back to the dealer, though as I work offshore it's on hold now till the third week of September. Bit of a bugger. It's in for servicing on the 22nd so I'm trying to get them to sort it then.

Just with regards to Settols suggestion, aye that's possible. Still determined the noise was from the offside, I switched the front and rear wheels around. So there will most certainly be uneven wear. The noise however hasn't changed regardless.

 

[SuperV8]

I can empathise, that's exactly the situation I was in. They're pretty easy to change. I'll do a quick description in case anyone finds this thread in the future:

1. Jack corner up and put it on an axle stand and remove wheel. Pop out centre cap from the inside.
2. Put wheel back on and lower to ground.
3. Use a 24mm 12 point socket to loosen axle bolt. You will need a long pole, this thing is TIGHT.
4. Jack corner up and put on axle stand and remove wheel.
5. Remove caliper carrier bolts and hang whole assembly from the spring out of the way.
6. Remove disc retaining screw and brake rotor.
7. Remove dust shield.
8. Unscrew axle bolt half an inch and give it a few taps to start the axle moving then remove altogether.
9. Unscrew the three nuts underneath the end of the lower control arm.
10. Yank the lower control arm down so it disconnects from the ball joint.
11. You can now yank the steering knuckle so as to remove the end of the axle completely and expose the back of the casting.
12. Remove the three M12 triple square bolts.
13. A few taps of a lump hammer will pop the bearing out of the casting.
14: Do steps 12 to 1 in the reverse order (more or less, you'll see what I mean) .

It takes a bit of swearing and shoving to get everything to line back up but a combination of brute force, swearing and turning the steering back and forth it's not too bad of a job. From memory, the torque values are:

Axle bolts: 200nm plus 180 degrees.
M12 triple squares: 70nm plus 90 degrees.
Three nuts: 40nm plus 45 degrees.

Did you manage to achieve the +180degs on the drive shaft bolts???
I nearly popped a vein with my massive breaker bar but still couldn't reach 180degs on my angle gauge. My new bolts had serrations under the flange - VS the bolts which came of which were smooth - so I think increased friction is the reason? either way they are not going anywhere!

 

[SuperV8]

Aye another thanks for that extended info from you both. Particularly Woody's guide, though I couldn't comment personally with regards to the (potential damage) issue with removing the drive shaft bolt as bearings are one thing I've yet to have a go at myself. I'd be keen to hear how you got on with yours SuperV8. As for me, for the moment I'm making full use of that warranty so it's back to the dealer, though as I work offshore it's on hold now till the third week of September. Bit of a bugger. It's in for servicing on the 22nd so I'm trying to get them to sort it then.

Just with regards to Settols suggestion, aye that's possible. Still determined the noise was from the offside, I switched the front and rear wheels around. So there will most certainly be uneven wear. The noise however hasn't changed regardless.

I changed one a week ago as I ran out of time to do both.
This was the right hand bearing - which when going round a left hand bend I could faintly hear brake disc rubbing - proving too much bearing play. the rhythmic whum whum however was still there when at motorway speeds, maybe a little improved. I recorded a video to try to capture the noise but on playback I can just hear wind/tyre noise.
I changed the other one yesterday and I've only had a short run since but I think the rhythmic whum whum has gone - still some noise at motorway speeds but more a constant drone now I would say - I think i'll look into the Audi A3 rear subframe mass damper mod next.

 

[Rusty2k]

Did you manage to achieve the +180degs on the drive shaft bolts???
I nearly popped a vein with my massive breaker bar but still couldn't reach 180degs on my angle gauge. My new bolts had serrations under the flange - VS the bolts which came of which were smooth - so I think increased friction is the reason? either way they are not going anywhere!

The bolts with the ribbed / serrated clamping face are 70Nm + 90°

200Nm + 180° is for the bolts without the serrated clamping face

 

[SuperV8]

That's a fair point but very impractical for the average joe. Every video I've seen of people removing or reassembling the wheel bolt has done it with the wheel on the ground.

Your second point is a good one, I've read the same thing. You'll be fighting one less thing when trying to get the ball joint back into the control arm. I, however, am an optimistic idiot and didn't bother .

On my first bearing; I tried undoing the drop link as in the manual - and broke my small triple square bit in the process (5mm XZN bit - stupid design!) ! The nut backed out a couple turns and then bound tight. so I struggled on with anti-roll bar connected - got it all apart ok - BUT trying to rebuild I found it impossible, got the driveshaft in ok but could not for the life of me get the lower ball joint lined up with the three holes in the wishbone - struggled for ages - Had a cuppa tea then re-arranged my axle stands jacking up both sides so the anti-roll bar wasn't in tension and it went in easy! Then the fun part was trying to re-tighten the drop link! resorted to mole grips on the thread and tapping the spanner with a hammer - took ages and didn't think it was working, when I was about to call it a day the nut finally went tight If ever these drop links need changing in the future it will be a drill job I think!