MK3 Leon Cupra, what we know

[ZBOYD]

I'm not convinced. Why limit the torque to 350nm like all the older ~200bhp cars....

Same engine code as the latest S3. It'll just be detuned, a lot like the Mk2 Cupra engine was a detuned version of the previous S3.

There maybe some mild engineering differences, like last time, intercooler etc. But a lot of whats put down on paper in press releases regarding power is inaccurate anyway.

Torque will be limited to reign in the power to the front wheels more than anything, the cars as a product will be tailored by the manufacturer to a set of parameters they feel are best suited to it.

Tuners tend to throw those parameters out the window, and tinker.

 

[DeanC]

Same engine code as the latest S3. It'll just be detuned, a lot like the Mk2 Cupra engine was a detuned version of the previous S3.

There maybe some mild engineering differences, like last time, intercooler etc. But a lot of whats put down on paper in press releases regarding power is inaccurate anyway.

Torque will be limited to reign in the power to the front wheels more than anything, the cars as a product will be tailored by the manufacturer to a set of parameters they feel are best suited to it.

Tuners tend to throw those parameters out the window, and tinker.

I get you. A tuned one would certainly be interesting!

Maybe it's just me but i have always debated the point of these super hot fwd cars. I mean they are no quicker at legal speeds or through corners than rwd or 4wd than cars with much less power. It seems like 220/230bhp is about the limit before you hit a wall.

I mean my 230bhp oil burner can do 5.5 to 60 but it is easy to fluff it and go much slower with ASC on or off - it struggles for traction up to about 50mph. I doubt even a 350bhp/400nm cupra would be much under that, look at the focus RS500 - ridiculous imo.

 

[ZBOYD]

I get you. A tuned one would certainly be interesting!

Maybe it's just me but i have always debated the point of these super hot fwd cars. I mean they are no quicker at legal speeds or through corners than rwd or 4wd than cars with much less power. It seems like 220/230bhp is about the limit before you hit a wall.

I mean my 230bhp oil burner can do 5.5 to 60 but it is easy to fluff it and go much slower with ASC on or off - it struggles for traction up to about 50mph. I doubt even a 350bhp/400nm cupra would be much under that, look at the focus RS500 - ridiculous imo.

I've not driven the new Cupra as yet, hope to do so in the coming weeks. From what I've read of other reviews and of reviews on the Golf, the VAQ diff is really efficient at reigning in the power delivery.

But I tend to agree, my previous tuned Mk2 Cupra (now living with Badger Bill) was pushing on over 350bhp and in the region of 450+nm despite the addition of uprated coil overs, engine mounts etc it could be a handful if it got damp. I never opted for an uprated diff while I owned it, but it would likely benefit from one.

But the throttle isn't a switch so you drive it to the conditions. On a nice dry day, it was a joy to blast through the twisty peak district lanes where I live.

My Mk3 FR is probably a little more fun to drive on the lanes, lacking the grunt of my Cupra, its more balanced when in the high revs, its lighter and the MQB chassis has evolved from the Mk2 which itself was a huge step on from the Mk1.

I look forward to taking a new Cupra down the same roads, and see if its power band is a hinderance or makes my smile bigger.

 

[morini]

Feature / review now up on main site.

http://www.seatcupra.net/wp/index.p...the-new-leon-cupra-on-the-road-and-the-track/

Scott

Enjoyable read. Thanks very much for that.

 

[Syphon]

Enjoyable read. Thanks very much for that.

No probs. Glad you enjoyed it.

Scott

 

[wild willy]

Well done Syphon, another great review. Appears Seat have a Corker on their hands.

 

[robdf2]

No probs. Glad you enjoyed it.

Scott

So the big question Scott

was the manual or the DSG the better drive?

 

[robdf2]

For those in the know

when you open the bonnet can you tell its a Cupra engine from a normal gti type TSI engine
and no i dont mean by the Cupra badge on the engine cover

on the mk2 it was clear by the position of the divertor valve , Cupra was front right , FR was attached to the turbo.

 

[Siboneh]

I was looking through the internet and saw this photoshop drawing of a ST Cupra thought it looked nice.
I do apologise if this isn't the right section to post this.

http://xtomi.blogspot.hu/
Full credit to X-Tomi Design he does have a lot of nice concept designs.

 

[morini]

The pictures with the manual / dsg gearstick have chrome trimmed versions and black versions. I assume one of them is a cost option? Which one is standard?

Can't decide which looks best, think I prefer the black.

 

[gamer555]

maybe one is for 265 and the other for 280 (I assume the one with more chrome)

 

[morini]

maybe one is for 265 and the other for 280 (I assume the one with more chrome)

Good point. I should have thought of that.

 

[Syphon]

So the big question Scott

was the manual or the DSG the better drive?

DSG as I didn't have to worry about changing gear with the wrong hand.

Both felt fine to me. DSG was more fun for the novelty as well, although I didn't really get to do a proper back to back and put them fully through their paces. DSG was ace on track.

Scott

 

[AndrewJB]

DSG is for me as well

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[splitzyx]

Scott, on which level was the tyre noise on the highway (18-19'') when you tested the Cupra in Spain, compared to a regular Leon FR with 18'' wheels. Does the DCC/different modes and options help?

 

[Syphon]

Scott, on which level was the tyre noise on the highway (18-19'') when you tested the Cupra in Spain, compared to a regular Leon FR with 18'' wheels. Does the DCC/different modes and options help?

I can't say I noticed any tyre noise issues on either car on any of the different settings. It was a comfortable cruiser as much as a go kart when you wanted it to be.

Scott

 

[big eck]

Quick vid of the S1 test drive. Its such a shame that seat didn't do 4wd to the mk3.

http://youtu.be/w1y2RU9s6wA

 

[morini]

Quick vid of the S1 test drive. Its such a shame that seat didn't do 4wd to the mk3.

http://youtu.be/w1y2RU9s6wA

If this new Cupra was 4WD I for one would order one tomorrow. I know people comment on the perceived lower quality as opposed to other VAG brands, but to be honest it is something I am happy to live with if a car drives well and it is obvious there have been continued improvements on that front anyway. Our mk2 Cupra has been the only new car we have ever owned which has been 100% problem free during our ownership (which counts for a lot in my book). It will be three years old at the end of March and I would happily have another SEAT based on experience with this one.

The stumbling point for me is price. When we bought the mk2 in 2011 it was heavily discounted and (I thought at that time) a very good value hot hatch. Three years later, the list price for the mk3 equivalent is over £10k more than we paid in 2011. I don't think SEAT have priced it correctly and, unless there will be very big discounts from day 1, I fear a lot of prospective buyers will end up in Audi S3 / Golf R / M135i.

I am not a badge snob by the way, far from it in fact.

 

[DeanC]

If this new Cupra was 4WD I for one would order one tomorrow. I know people comment on the perceived lower quality as opposed to other VAG brands, but to be honest it is something I am happy to live with if a car drives well and it is obvious there have been continued improvements on that front anyway. Our mk2 Cupra has been the only new car we have ever owned which has been 100% problem free during our ownership (which counts for a lot in my book). It will be three years old at the end of March and I would happily have another SEAT based on experience with this one.

The stumbling point for me is price. When we bought the mk2 in 2011 it was heavily discounted and (I thought at that time) a very good value hot hatch. Three years later, the list price for the mk3 equivalent is over £10k more than we paid in 2011. I don't think SEAT have priced it correctly and, unless there will be very big discounts from day 1, I fear a lot of prospective buyers will end up in Audi S3 / Golf R / M135i.

I am not a badge snob by the way, far from it in fact.

That is exactly where my mind is at. I don't get why they did not make it 230bhp which would ultimately make it the same performance in most situations as it's fwd and then just massively undercut the golf GTI. We ended up with something which is nowhere near as capable as a 4wd golf R or S3 with a few extra toys as standard at a not much cheaper price.

I get their logic, they will shift a lot of them based on the 280bhp written on the spec sheet alone but that is not great for an enthusiast.

I'm no badge snob, I love my car (90% of the time) as much as my last car which was 20k more. The other 10% of the time I just remind myself of the savings

 

[ZBOYD]

Saying the Cupra should be more like the S1 or S3 or Golf R is completely academic. The same people that say Audi can build the S1 are the same people who tell SEAT what they can and can't build.

Audi are in a different market space to SEAT, they are profitable not just on the back of their sporty brands, on their range in general. (If your wedged enough to be able to afford it) Their range of cars is huge, with a large selection of variants.

This is where SEAT will always lose out, they are slap bang in the middle of a recovery.

The last decade was pretty bad for the company in global sales, not so much in the UK, where it has risen year on year. However they are now bucking the trend in a way they have never managed before, the Leon is being lauded by the press and most customers as a serious market contender to Ford, Renault and even VW's own Golf.

SEAT need to build on this, overall range popularity is what makes an argument for the kind of cars Audi can offer. They sell 1000's of A1's, A3's A4's Q3's Q5's TT's need I go on. Their global sales bubble is in a state where it can generally do no wrong at the moment in the eyes of the bean counters.

So when the marketing people come along and say lets make a Quattro based shopping A1 barmy hatch, the bosses say go for it.

When SEAT have the same conversation, it will generally go... how many SE's FR's have been sold this year, how is the profitability and what can we do to sell more. Truth is its all about volumes, the small amount of Cupra sales will be eclipsed by the SE and FR sales over the course of a year, and that is how it should be if the company is to succeed.

As I say its been a tough decade for the brand, but the Leon has bucked the trend, and the management now appear to be on the right track by offering choice.

The Cupra is the first statement of intent, but I don't think its the overall picture.

The Ibiza needs a reboot in due course, maybe another product such as an small SUV type needs introducing to the range, something based on the Q3 which is already built at Martorell.

When SEAT are in a growth position, and sustain that growth, which appears to be happening, will the suits say ok lets build something a bit meaner, a real halo product. 4WD Cupra R, well maybe, lets hope that is the case.

Patience is a virtue, but just because Audi and VW can generally do what they like, it doesn't automatically follow suit that SEAT get carté blanche to do the same.