Robbie C's Ibiza Cupra

[PhilW]

215g/s made 273

So 227 would make roughly 288 on my guess?

So at even lower ambients 300 might not be that far off?

 

[GotBoost]

Not neccessarily ambients, but intake temps yes. You can have low ambients and high intake temps on a dyno with poor airflow, before the entire room heats up. A good test of a dynos capability to keep a vehicle cool is perform several back to back runs and log intake temps/ under bonnet temps ( bonnet shut ). The extraction system in a cell should be capable of exchanging the entire contents or air several times a minute, keeping ambients steady. Coupled with dedicated exhaust extraction there should be no fumes back entering the intake tract, robbing power. We can do some testing on yours Phil when ive got the Mainline up and running in the new cell, hopefully the new cooling fan is upto the job, im sure it is

A reduction in true intake temps of 10*c requires an approximate increase in fuelling of 3.5% - more fuel required to sustain same AFR = more air. More fuel+more air = more power!! The amount of power is obviously dependant on the engine in question.

For anyone reading this, the weather station on the Dastek system is located inside the control cabinet and is not open to any user adjustments for power fudging, unlike Dyno Dynamics that uses the intake air temp probe (temp) as a correction factor, if this is placed in a hot place you get more power on the graph..... Mainline also has a separate weather station where no user input is possible for weather correction.

 

[GotBoost]

Bill - would be interesting on this vehicle to make use of the thermocouple channels and log temps directly after intercooler ( before WMI ) and at Throttle plate ( after WMI ), just for reference more than anything....

I know you have done some work with WMI previously, drop me an email when i get back from hols and we can combine data, i have done some interesting work with M45 Supercharged MX5s and WMI and no intercooler, may be relevant to your golf M45 build if you decide to WMI or just general date compare

 

[Robbie C]

Sounds interesting. I'd be up for doing back-to-back runs with the timing advance reset to zero and WMI switched off to see how IATs and resultant power compares with and without these contributions.

IIRC, I think Bill's logging on his own car revealed a ~10 BHP gain for every 3-4 degrees of advance

 

[GotBoost]

Temps, not ignition timing.
You cannot calculate or estimate power gains from ignition adjustment, power will increase with more ignition advance in a non linear fashion, before peaking and dropping, or detonation is heared ( knock threshold for fuel used ). The limitations of the factory ECU only allows blanket adjustment ( after mapping ), +4* at one load/rpm point may net maximum power, whereas at another point a different timing value will be required. There is alot to be gained from steady state live tuning to MBT but the cost is much greater. The use of logging CF is limited, just because the car is on the verge of knock it doesnt neccessarily mean there is more power being made.

 

[ibizacupra]

Bill - would be interesting on this vehicle to make use of the thermocouple channels and log temps directly after intercooler ( before WMI ) and at Throttle plate ( after WMI ), just for reference more than anything....

I know you have done some work with WMI previously, drop me an email when i get back from hols and we can combine data, i have done some interesting work with M45 Supercharged MX5s and WMI and no intercooler, may be relevant to your golf M45 build if you decide to WMI or just general date compare

cool, sounds good craig

i got the aem wideband working now on the other 5v input and scaled to read 1:1 to the gauge

not used the thermocouples yet.. more toys to log - hehe
used vagcom on the cars so far, which are intake manifold located, and they see the benefits of wmi injection.

drop me a line when your back off holiday

 

[jamiebennett81]

Good to finally meet you today mate!

Car is stunning! Shame my tools didn't fit the :cough: loose JBS manifold bolts :cough:

Is that all sorted now?

 

[Robbie C]

Cheers mate, you too. Always nice to put faces to the names. No worries on the tools - appreciate you helping. Enjoyed the show too.

Alex kindly managed to get hold of a tool kit from the Revo boys which had the required 17mm socket, not something I tend to carry round!

We've tightened them back up as much as we dare for fear of ruining the threads on the turbo. The bolt closest to the head didn't seem to want to tighten up nicely again so it's not been persuaded all the way in, just in case anything snaps etc and to avoid any cross threading..

All seemed fine on the way home so it's bought a little time at least - could definitely feel the difference in performance. Just need to get some new bolts and gasket sorted before Combe next month now, I'll be following up with JBS tomorrow to see where things stand.

 

[joehirth]

Robbie, my mate's got a few pics of your car from Ed38 I will upload them soon

 

[joehirth]

Here you go:

Very nice mate

 

[turbo009]

Very nice Robbie!

 

[kelvin_redcupra]

Just looked through your thread robbie fair play mate your car is stunning where did you get the peloquin diff from an how much can you pick them up for?

 

[Robbie C]

Cheers for the pics Joe and thanks everyone for the comments

Kelvin, I managed to source the diff brand new from a user on here that bought it from Peloquin in the states but decided against fitting it.

See http://www.peloquins.com/ for more info - or you could also opt for a Quaiffe diff (which the Peloquin is supposedly a carbon copy of) from some of the traders on the forum - possibly Backdraft or Jabbasport. The Quaiffe used to be more expensive but with the current exchange rate I doubt there's much in it now. They go for around £650-700 brand new IIRC but are worth their weight in gold.

 

[joehirth]

Cheers for the pics Joe and thanks everyone for the comments

No worries bud

 

[Robbie C]

Sooo, as some of you already know when I arrived at Edition38 on Sunday morning and popped the bonnet it was soon noticed that two out of three of my JBS exhaust manifold bolts had worked their way loose, sitting over an inch out from the top of the bolt holes.

The car has covered ~4500 miles since the manifold was fitted, and have presumably worked their way loose and stretched with heat, requiring new replacements to prevent the same happening again.

With the help of Alex at BDM we got hold of a socket set (thanks Revo) and re-tightened the bolts as much as we dare for fear of them snapping or cross threading the turbo as the bolt nearest the head didn't seem to want to tighten all the way in nicely. That said, it was enough to get me back home at least and the car felt noticeably more powerful.

Some of you may already be aware of the initial issues I faced with JBS and their original tubular manifold causing massive delays, extra expense and inconvenience so I wasn't entirely surprised when contacting them again this week to be informed that this does not fall under warranty and I would need to pay for new bolts myself...

I'm really not interested in sh*t stirring and causing petty arguments but frankly I'm tired of all the nonsense that ends up at my expense. You can all make your own informed judgements from the email thread between myself and JBS:

From: Rob Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:45 PM
To: JBS Office
Subject: Re: JBS K03 cast manifold bolts


Hi xxxxxxx,

While I appreciate this may not concern you personally I had hoped for a more helpful response. This argument is unfounded on all counts and is nothing more than a very transparent attempt to exempt JBS from any liability. To elucidate my point:

1. The warranty clearly states that a one year warranty is offered on any JBS manifold installed by a professional third party, and two years if installed by JBS.

2. The manifold was installed by Bill at Badger 5, one of the most reputable VAG tuners in the industry. There is no doubt that the bolts were not torqued correctly - the car has covered over 4,000 miles since installation before this has become an issue.

3. The EGTs on the vehicle are largely irrelevant; the product is sold for application with k03x turbos, which this car is running. If that were really the case then the product is essentially unfit for purpose. Nowhere does it state in any product description or warranty documentation that the manifold is not suitable for specific EGT ranges. Furthermore, the car is running water methanol injection which will aid control of EGTs. As I recall one of the key points of the stainless cast design was to withstand these temperatures generated by high boost k03x turbo applications.

4. The car is also running a full set of Vibra-Technics engine mounts discounting any form of excessive play that may stress these bolts. This car has been fully modified with top quality components to the highest of standards for reliable fast road/track use.

After extensive issues with the original JBS tubular manifold I had really hoped this 'teflon' attitude would not be repeated. My Reader's Ride thread fully details the original issues I faced to the detriment to JBS' reputation and it's a shame that things have seemingly not improved.

Tired of being fed bovine excrement from technicians that underestimate their customer base, I will source a new set of stainless bolts to the correct grade from elsewhere.

Regards,

Rob


From: JBS Office
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:03 PM
To: Rob Clarke
Subject: Re: JBS K03 cast manifold bolts


Good Morning Rob,

I apologise for the delay in getting back to you, I have had to pass this through to my superior to gain more information on this matter.

Unfortunatly we are unable to offer warranty on the bolt set, as we ourselves have not fitted the manifold.

There are several factors which could of resulted in the bolts themselves coming loose, whether it be that they were incorrectly torqued up, the EGT's on your vehicle could be creeping onto the highside causing them to come loose or even excessive play in your engine mounts creating addtional stress on the bolts.

We can however supply the bolts at a charge, but are currently sourcing more from our supplier due to a recent jump in demand for the manifolds, we are currently out of stock.

Many thanks again for your email and look forward to hearing back from you.

Regards

xxxxxxxxx

Parts/Sales Advisor

</rant>

 

[M1KEH]

JBS really aren't doing to well to make a good name for themselves at the moment. First the vvt attack and now not replacing 3 bolts that probably cost them about £5 maximum.

 

[jamiebennett81]

Another nail in the JBS coffin

What goes around comes around. Karma...it's a beautiful thing

 

[joehirth]

I've been told to stay away from JBS from day 1 by a guy at work that does take ths p*ss mind. Customer service is what differentiates between a good company and a bad one - look at Lexus they replaced all four of my mates Mum's alloys because one was corroded, gave her a complementary service and delivered it back to her at work all for FREE!

 

[Jdizzy]

This is just awesome mate

 

[lm_gauci]

Seems like JBS have done nothing to improve customer service what so ever. You'd atleast expect them to try and improve what reputation they have left

"We can however supply the bolts at a charge, but are currently sourcing more from our supplier due to a recent jump in demand"

I'd imagine thats down to them being rather than selling more manifolds, lol.

On a plus note, the car looks really smart mate