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Mk1 LCR short-listed on the poll for Autocar's best hot hatch ever!!
- Thread starter ZBOYD
- Start date
Sorry, have to disagree with you!
When Top Gear (TV show) did a feature on the then-new VW MkV GTI, it also pitted the GTI against its rivals on-track: LCR; Civic Type-R (mk1); Citroen C4 VTS; Cooper S Works; Megane 225 (non-LSD version).
The Stig's lap times were as follows:
1) Civic Type-R: 1:32.8
2) LCR: 1:32.9
3) VW GTI (Mk5): 1:33.7
4) Megane 225: 1:34.0
5) Cooper S Wrks: 1:34.2
6) Citroen C4 VTS: 1:35.8
Considering that the CTR - generally regarded, at the time, by specialist media as the best-handling hot hatch - has superior bhp/tonne compared to the LCR, then surely a mere 1/10th difference indicates that the LCR is indeed a fine handler?
And German TV car show MotorVision posted a faster lap time - on its very twisty handling circuit - for the LCR against the CTR:
LCR - 20.14
CTR - 20.31
Of course, we'll ignore 5th Gear's laps - Needell is more concerned about showboating oversteer than consistency.
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ptw (power to weight) can be missleading.
eg:
two cars:
car 1 is 1 ton and has 100 bhp - ptw = 100 per ton
car 2 is 2 ton and has 200 bhp - ptw = 100 per ton
so the same ptw..
However, lets assume that they will have similair aerodynamic properties and therefore both require around 50bhp to simply travel at and maintain a speed of 70mph.
Now lets look at the stats again but look at just the 'spare' power available for acceleration:
car 1 is 1 ton and has 100 bhp - has 50 bhp 'spare' for acceleration. so 50bhp per ton.
car 2 is 2 ton and has 200 bhp - has 150 bhp 'spare' for acceleration. so 75bhp per ton.
now it would apper that car 2 has 50% more power for acceleration when on the move.
Another example of this would be the Top gear episode that pitched the McLaren F1 road car v the Bugatti Veyron.
While the McLaren was down on power i think it had a better PTW. Or indeed they were at least similair.
So the McLaren was faster off the line and initially excellerated quicker. However as aerodynamics became more of a factor the veyron took over.
Of course, if there were a few turns im sure the McLaren would have spanked the Veyron.
Top Gears system of timing a car from a standing start benefits some cars, (eg porche) and works against some others.
eg:
two cars:
car 1 is 1 ton and has 100 bhp - ptw = 100 per ton
car 2 is 2 ton and has 200 bhp - ptw = 100 per ton
so the same ptw..
However, lets assume that they will have similair aerodynamic properties and therefore both require around 50bhp to simply travel at and maintain a speed of 70mph.
Now lets look at the stats again but look at just the 'spare' power available for acceleration:
car 1 is 1 ton and has 100 bhp - has 50 bhp 'spare' for acceleration. so 50bhp per ton.
car 2 is 2 ton and has 200 bhp - has 150 bhp 'spare' for acceleration. so 75bhp per ton.
now it would apper that car 2 has 50% more power for acceleration when on the move.
Another example of this would be the Top gear episode that pitched the McLaren F1 road car v the Bugatti Veyron.
While the McLaren was down on power i think it had a better PTW. Or indeed they were at least similair.
So the McLaren was faster off the line and initially excellerated quicker. However as aerodynamics became more of a factor the veyron took over.
Of course, if there were a few turns im sure the McLaren would have spanked the Veyron.
Top Gears system of timing a car from a standing start benefits some cars, (eg porche) and works against some others.
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no mention of the DC2 Integra type R either
i think thats because its a hot hatch poll,and a teg isnt a hatch (that correct?
)on another note, voted LCR, sticky this or something and make every1 vote
Sorry, have to disagree with you!
When Top Gear (TV show) did a feature on the then-new VW MkV GTI, it also pitted the GTI against its rivals on-track: LCR; Civic Type-R (mk1); Citroen C4 VTS; Cooper S Works; Megane 225 (non-LSD version).
The Stig's lap times were as follows:
1) Civic Type-R: 1:32.8
2) LCR: 1:32.9
3) VW GTI (Mk5): 1:33.7
4) Megane 225: 1:34.0
5) Cooper S Wrks: 1:34.2
6) Citroen C4 VTS: 1:35.8
Considering that the CTR - generally regarded, at the time, by specialist media as the best-handling hot hatch - has superior bhp/tonne compared to the LCR, then surely a mere 1/10th difference indicates that the LCR is indeed a fine handler?
And German TV car show MotorVision posted a faster lap time - on its very twisty handling circuit - for the LCR against the CTR:
LCR - 20.14
CTR - 20.31
Of course, we'll ignore 5th Gear's laps - Needell is more concerned about showboating oversteer than consistency.
Anyone got a link to a vid of this? been trying to find some topgear/5th gear stuff featuring the mk1 LCR but struggling!
When Top Gear did the feature on the VW GTI Mk5, its on-track footage was of the GTI's test only, then it cut to the studio where the GTI was lined up with the LCR, CTR et al, and then 'the trio' jabbered away while referring to a flip-chart showing the cars' lap times. (No doubt the episode is often repeated on Dave...)
Here's the German TV car show's (MotorVision) LCR road-test vid (with a Full HD 1080p option!), albeit in an edit that omits the caption with all of the lap times but does have a brief caption at the end:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Easu4c03woI
However, here's a link that lists MotorVision's equivalent of Top Gear's 'power laps', as of 13.02.2005. The LCR (210) is 29th, the CTR 35th= & the LCR 225 is 37th (??!!!):
http://forum.gute-fahrt.de/archive/index.php/t-10413.html
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Cheers for that vid, me dads other half is german so just asked if she can translate the key points of it!
Surely they have the 225 and 210 mixed up on that sheet??
All hail the inventor of the hot hatch:
the Alfa sud was my favorite car as a kid (countach excepted) I often think I'm drawn to mk1 Leon design due to its similarities to the Alfa sud. I think the leon looks like a modern version.
Umm, er, actually, I've just realised that I've miscalculated...
Seem to have muddled me VTECs - CTR's & ITR's - thought the CTR Mk1 has 220bhp. Nope, it has 200bhp.
So, the LCR actually has better bhp/tonne than the CTR: 161.34bhp/tonne vs 156.37bhp/tonne, respectively - a whopping 4.97bhp advantage.
Still, the fact remains that the CTR was judged to be the best-handling hot hatch & the LCR was c. 0.1sec behind, or ahead, depending on if you're a Top Gear or MotorVision fan.
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I had an Almera Gti,and i really must admit it was one of the best handling FWD drive cars ive ever had/been in. It really didnt have many BHP (150ish?) but the chassis was great for the power it had,with the factory fitted front and rear sturt braces it went around corners at speeds i carnt do in the cupra. Dont get me wrong it should not and will not win any poles but it is an under estimated lil car in my eyes.
Heres the feedback:
'there was no talk about ranking, but the review was very positive. It says the Seat takes some interior elements from the Audi A3 and some from the Golf. And it's got anti-slide seats and is quite ergonomic and easy to get into. Can you work out what all the figures that pop up on the screen refer to or do I need to list them? The last ones were about the brakes.
Steering control is impressive, they say, but advise some care when it's wet. It's the strongest Seat of all times and handles well on the slalom and handling courses and is at its best on middle and long trips, with great grip on bends. A compact fighting bull, they call it! '
Not a bad review then!
obviously voted for lcr, however integrale is probably the best of all time... thing is there are so many focus owners out there that they will probably out vote everyone else by voting for a cossie or RS
Great cars - used to have a 16v, briefly - but it was too much hassle + ££££s to run & blimey did/do the cabins creak - it rattled like a skeleton masturbating inside a filing cabinet. Once, I closed the hatch & a rear side-window popped out!
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