Ibiza Mk4 FR TDI or Cupra TDI

[andypandypoos]

better looks (inside and out), better brakes, bigger turbo, decent FMIC...Cupra every time

yes but how much

not too much but remember this price is from last year

 

[krussel]

If you can afford the extra insurance each year and dont mind the extra milage then the Cupra. The FR is only group 8 though . Pretty much the same mpg, i think road tax as well.

 

[karizma_fas]

Yeah I like the sound of Group 8 but like how it's the same consumption and tax.

Just the 55k miles that's bothering me especially because I do a lot of miles each year. So when I go to sell it it'll probably have 100K on the clock and may not get much for it, whereas the FR will only have 75k on the clock.
People have said the engines run forever so mileage may not be an issue

 

[krussel]

I ve just renewed my FR Tdi road tax at £120 and i am sure the Cupra is the same

The comsumption is purely how you drive as the turbo spools up around 1800-4000 rpm if you stay below that then 50 mpg is available. I would recon the FR and the Cupra are about the same on a light throttle but when you hit the boost the Cuprs's larger turbo might use more fuel. I doubt there is a lot in it though.

 

[Dom1988]

I've got a Cupra Tdi and i only bought it about a month ago and it had 77000miles on it. I do about 16000miles a year. As you said i was worried about the high miles i do aswell. But when you think about it, if your going to put that many miles on the car why buy a more expensive one with less miles if your going to change the car from being a low miler to a high miler by the time you sell it. You'll lose more money that way in my opinion. I bought mine with high mileage knowin that i was only going to make it even higher. Didn't see the point in spending more money for a lower mileage ones. Plus like some of the others have stated already, as long as the previous owner has looked after it, and everything matches the log book you should be fine.

 

[karizma_fas]

Very true indeed. Only thing is, the EGR Valve needs either replacing or taken out and cleaned of soot.

Has anyone done this? If so big job and expensive?

Cheers

 

[Gaz44]

I ve just renewed my FR Tdi road tax at £120 and i am sure the Cupra is the same

The comsumption is purely how you drive as the turbo spools up around 1800-4000 rpm if you stay below that then 50 mpg is available. I would recon the FR and the Cupra are about the same on a light throttle but when you hit the boost the Cuprs's larger turbo might use more fuel. I doubt there is a lot in it though.

The turbo helps with mpg as the torque helps the car along with little effort, hence why remaps can increase mpg. The lag you get below 1800 rpm in the Cupra probably uses more fuel than sitting at 2000 rpm. It's more to do with how you drive. Accelerating hard and not being smooth is the culprit of bad mpg.

 

[mgrays]

FR can do 55mpg
Cupra really struggles to get 50mpg.. and really 47-48mpg on cruise control on a motorway (and cruise control was never standard but folk like me have DIY'ed it). Try and keep below 2000 rpm but at 75mph it is doing 2150 rpm odd.. hence not good economy.

Cupra has better seats, interior (except black cloth is not as hard wearing and shows the dirt quickly), big brakes which I suspect are going to give trouble in the future (FR brakes overheat if you chip it), big Intercooler, hard suspension. Close ratio 6 speed gearbox instead of 5 speed. Fancy front/rear bumpers with bigger roof top spoiler if that is to your taste. Bigger alloys which are prone to damage and you cannot replace with other rims really due to big brake installation. Better for an A road hero blast for those reasons.

FR lot cheaper insurance, little better economy, top gear is lower rpm at 70mph due to gearing so it can get better economy, suspension lot less crashy and comfy for long trips. Interior pretty standard and it does get buttons on the steering wheel for the radio etc. Can be chipped to Cupra levels of power (but then Cupra can be chipped to 200hp or more if you shell out for an expensive new clutch) So more a long trip/gentle romp rather than an A road hero. One for the wallet not the heart.

I tried both a few years back for 2005 plates. FR would have been better really but it was too cheap for company car value and the power seduced me.. now I would love to get leather interior and dump that dirty looking black cloth.. and the front brakes/alloys compromised winds me up.. but it keeps on going. These new generation diesels are not as reliable as the old ones so don't expect the 250k miles that I used to get with no more than oil changes. VAG's Pump Deuse (unit injector direct injection) I'm not sure about but Fords, MB, Vauxhauls with commmon rail direct injection are getting £1k bills for new injectors at 70-90k miles..

Hope that helps.

 

[Kendo]

FR can do 55mpg
Cupra really struggles to get 50mpg.. and really 47-48mpg on cruise control on a motorway (and cruise control was never standard but folk like me have DIY'ed it). Try and keep below 2000 rpm but at 75mph it is doing 2150 rpm odd.. hence not good economy.

Cupra has better seats, interior (except black cloth is not as hard wearing and shows the dirt quickly), big brakes which I suspect are going to give trouble in the future (FR brakes overheat if you chip it), big Intercooler, hard suspension. Close ratio 6 speed gearbox instead of 5 speed. Fancy front/rear bumpers with bigger roof top spoiler if that is to your taste. Bigger alloys which are prone to damage and you cannot replace with other rims really due to big brake installation. Better for an A road hero blast for those reasons.

FR lot cheaper insurance, little better economy, top gear is lower rpm at 70mph due to gearing so it can get better economy, suspension lot less crashy and comfy for long trips. Interior pretty standard and it does get buttons on the steering wheel for the radio etc. Can be chipped to Cupra levels of power (but then Cupra can be chipped to 200hp or more if you shell out for an expensive new clutch) So more a long trip/gentle romp rather than an A road hero. One for the wallet not the heart.

I tried both a few years back for 2005 plates. FR would have been better really but it was too cheap for company car value and the power seduced me.. now I would love to get leather interior and dump that dirty looking black cloth.. and the front brakes/alloys compromised winds me up.. but it keeps on going. These new generation diesels are not as reliable as the old ones so don't expect the 250k miles that I used to get with no more than oil changes. VAG's Pump Deuse (unit injector direct injection) I'm not sure about but Fords, MB, Vauxhauls with commmon rail direct injection are getting £1k bills for new injectors at 70-90k miles..

Hope that helps.

Not sure about the original FR but the facelift version comes with 6 speed box and 17" inch alloys.

 

[Gaz44]

FR can do 55mpg
Cupra really struggles to get 50mpg.. and really 47-48mpg on cruise control on a motorway (and cruise control was never standard but folk like me have DIY'ed it). Try and keep below 2000 rpm but at 75mph it is doing 2150 rpm odd.. hence not good economy.

Cupra has better seats, interior (except black cloth is not as hard wearing and shows the dirt quickly), big brakes which I suspect are going to give trouble in the future (FR brakes overheat if you chip it), big Intercooler, hard suspension. Close ratio 6 speed gearbox instead of 5 speed. Fancy front/rear bumpers with bigger roof top spoiler if that is to your taste. Bigger alloys which are prone to damage and you cannot replace with other rims really due to big brake installation. Better for an A road hero blast for those reasons.

FR lot cheaper insurance, little better economy, top gear is lower rpm at 70mph due to gearing so it can get better economy, suspension lot less crashy and comfy for long trips. Interior pretty standard and it does get buttons on the steering wheel for the radio etc. Can be chipped to Cupra levels of power (but then Cupra can be chipped to 200hp or more if you shell out for an expensive new clutch) So more a long trip/gentle romp rather than an A road hero. One for the wallet not the heart.

QUOTE]

What do you mean?

I also think your overall review is pretty poor.

 

[.Phase]

original TDi 130 SPORT & FR came with 6 speed, as well as facelift FR... it's not only just the cupra =]

tbh there's so many mixed opinions you're better off just finding both near where you live and test driving both.. that's the only way to tell

 

[rod the sod]

the seats on the curpra are the same accept the stitching and the badge! the headlining is black on the cupra which is nicer in my opinion!

cupra has front mount intercooler, bigger brakes, spoiler, nicer alloys and thats about it really! not really worth the extra insurance!
i cant say anything as i have all these on my FR tdi now but thats only due to the hybrid turbo! if your not modifying much then go with the FR, if your going to b a petrol head then go with the cupra!

 

[krussel]

I could have bought a new Cupra tdi for just £900 more when i bought my FR.

I actually preferred the look of the FR with its metallic grey trim. The brakes are fine for every day use but when you push them hard they fade. I would not want the suspension any harder as its plenty firm enough .

I tend to keep a new car for a few years (and run two cars) so for me the extra cost of the ins each year would have become a factor once the fun had wore off.

As above my FR is 6 speed which gives you about 2100 rpm at the legal limit and 17” wheels standard.

I filled up the tank today and averaged 44mpg using the old calculator method (car comp reconed 53 )which I think is quite good considering my low 12 mile around commute to work and the cold weather, a few times ive left the car running to defrost etc.

Also taxed it last week for just £120.

You pays your money and takes your choice i guess, me I am just tight

 

[JPS3290]

I've had my Cupra TDI from new and has just turned 2.5 years old. Remapped with Custom Code map with 6k on the clock and now notched up 56k. Original clutch still going strong!

I drive A/B roads mainly out in the country so the car gets some stick, averages a realistic 48 mpg, 14-18k set of front tyres (depending on brand), 20k set of front pads, 40k front disks. Pads and disks are very cheap from "http://www.brakepartssuperstore.org.uk/contents/en-uk/d10803.html". £35 pads/£68 disks. For the size of the front brakes thats cheap IMO.

I can't compare to an FR but the suspension/handling etc is pretty good really. Little noisy sometimes but compared to my scooby its comfy I also have the Convieniance pack so have Cruise Control, folding in mirrors and side/curtain airbags as extra's.

For resale alone I would go with the Cupra TDI. It will sell with no issues at the right price, pretty high sort after. I will be keeping mine until its well over 100k as the only reason I bought a TDI was to stick lots of miles on. At least until I get around to buying my CBR600

 

[mgrays]

"brakes which I suspect are going to give trouble in the future (FR brakes overheat if you chip it)"

1. The Alloy AP brakes have a mix of metals (aluminium body, stainless bolts, mild steel spacer tubes) so they corrode beautifully in our salty winter weather. They are refugees from performance track cars that have been put on a shopping trolley! Their performance is not really any better than the Golf/TT 312mm single sided cast caliper (OK weight might be a slight performance gain). They are a pain in the neck to service and they will never last as well as the old Golf/TT. On top of this they force us to use silly alloys where the spokes stick out beyond the rubber of the tyres so city parking with high curbs will mince your alloys. They are a horrible Bling compromise which has obviously been lobbed on by Miguel from the Halfrauds land of mods in the backyard in the land of San Miguel. Sorry .. they are not long term useful brakes in terms of time to keep them running and they will stick/sieze/break sooner. Had a Golf VR6 4 Motion with the 312 brakes and that had better brakes without needs for stupid alloy design. This is from a former brake engineer... who made many single sided cast iron calipers like the TT; Bomb proof and simple - you can keep the Bling.
2. FR brakes are reportedly OK with 130hp but will wilt on a track day. Once you chip an FR to 170hp odd... then they are no longer adequate if you are push on driver. Heck I faded the AP's on the road when I was pushing down a long hill with about 1000 ft drop (true I am chipped Cupra) but I would hate to think of the FR brakes under those extremes.

My Bad about the 5 v 6 speeds gearbox then.. the FR I looked at had a trusty tweed type interior with light grey interior compared to the dark grey dash of the Cupra with everything in black cloth (looks good... wears dirt quickly ..e.g. cat/dog hairs!)

All IMHO ... YMV

 

[Gaz44]

"brakes which I suspect are going to give trouble in the future (FR brakes overheat if you chip it)"

1. The Alloy AP brakes have a mix of metals (aluminium body, stainless bolts, mild steel spacer tubes) so they corrode beautifully in our salty winter weather. They are refugees from performance track cars that have been put on a shopping trolley! Their performance is not really any better than the Golf/TT 312mm single sided cast caliper (OK weight might be a slight performance gain). They are a pain in the neck to service and they will never last as well as the old Golf/TT. On top of this they force us to use silly alloys where the spokes stick out beyond the rubber of the tyres so city parking with high curbs will mince your alloys. They are a horrible Bling compromise which has obviously been lobbed on by Miguel from the Halfrauds land of mods in the backyard in the land of San Miguel. Sorry .. they are not long term useful brakes in terms of time to keep them running and they will stick/sieze/break sooner. Had a Golf VR6 4 Motion with the 312 brakes and that had better brakes without needs for stupid alloy design. This is from a former brake engineer... who made many single sided cast iron calipers like the TT; Bomb proof and simple - you can keep the Bling.
2. FR brakes are reportedly OK with 130hp but will wilt on a track day. Once you chip an FR to 170hp odd... then they are no longer adequate if you are push on driver. Heck I faded the AP's on the road when I was pushing down a long hill with about 1000 ft drop (true I am chipped Cupra) but I would hate to think of the FR brakes under those extremes.

My Bad about the 5 v 6 speeds gearbox then.. the FR I looked at had a trusty tweed type interior with light grey interior compared to the dark grey dash of the Cupra with everything in black cloth (looks good... wears dirt quickly ..e.g. cat/dog hairs!)

All IMHO ... YMV

Thanks for explaining but this doesn't sound like it's coming from the experience of ownership. You "suspect" this might happen but if looked after and kept clean, they should pose no problems. As for "bling", I disagree as they are very effective brakes and perform fantastically; one of the reason I bought the car. I also quite like the wheels, so there is no issue there either. Basically, it sounds like you don't like how the brakes/wheels look. If that is the case, you probably wouldn't buy anyway.

This being my opinion!

 

[mgrays]

"this doesn't sound like it's coming from the experience of ownership."

Well I have owned a Cupra Diesel for 3.5 years and about 50,000 miles; hope that is enough

I do all my own maintenance and had the displeasure of changing the front pads about a year ago. This and my experience of the Golf with the in house VAG 312mm cast calipers and testing/assembling/designing brakes for 2 years with Girling has coloured my opinion I will admit
see http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=174581
and http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2297749

The rims; the looks are neither here nor there; it was just the ability to damage on high curbs which no other OEM rim I can think of having and the lack of ability to fit alternatives that rub me up the other way.

Sorry .. this is “white goods” transport for me (i.e. utilitarian car), my petrol fumes fever is satisfied by a turbo petrol RWD of about 1.1t with 240hp and no roof that is a lot more fun but less economical, less refined. My other 3 cars have been fully messed with in terms of non standard, rebuilt, resprayed but I am a (relatively to this site) old b*gger so bling or looks do nothing for me with this car.. it is about reasonably rapid effective transport with minimum hassle (So chipped, cruise control, real clutch is all the mods). YOMV

I admit that the FR test drive was 3.5 years ago so others will be better at that than me.

Anyway either car is good for it place in the market...

 

[Gaz44]

"this doesn't sound like it's coming from the experience of ownership."

Well I have owned a Cupra Diesel for 3.5 years and about 50,000 miles; hope that is enough

I do all my own maintenance and had the displeasure of changing the front pads about a year ago. This and my experience of the Golf with the in house VAG 312mm cast calipers and testing/assembling/designing brakes for 2 years with Girling has coloured my opinion I will admit
see http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=174581
and http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2297749

The rims; the looks are neither here nor there; it was just the ability to damage on high curbs which no other OEM rim I can think of having and the lack of ability to fit alternatives that rub me up the other way.

Sorry .. this is “white goods” transport for me (i.e. utilitarian car), my petrol fumes fever is satisfied by a turbo petrol RWD of about 1.1t with 240hp and no roof that is a lot more fun but less economical, less refined. My other 3 cars have been fully messed with in terms of non standard, rebuilt, resprayed but I am a (relatively to this site) old b*gger so bling or looks do nothing for me with this car.. it is about reasonably rapid effective transport with minimum hassle (So chipped, cruise control, real clutch is all the mods). YOMV

I admit that the FR test drive was 3.5 years ago so others will be better at that than me.

Anyway either car is good for it place in the market...

Fair enough but many will not bother changing pads themselves, so no issue there. The rims are curbed by the driver, so maybe a bit more care on you part will keep them sweet.

My ownership so far has been A+. I have come from a RWD 231hp car with a roof!

 

[davidmills2002]

The only real reason you would get an FR over a Cupra is cost to buy. Cupra is better or same as FR in pretty much everything except slightly crashier ride and marginally worse MPG. You can quite easily match performance of standard Cupra with a mildly modded FR, but if you were to mod the Cupra you would out do the FR obviously. I've got an FR and love it but wish I had a Cupra as it would be a better starting block, but suppose getting a car like an FR when your 19 is still good!

 

[.Phase]

I have come from a RWD 231hp car with a roof!

sounds nice...

Z3M Coupe ?