PD Manifold/1.8T Pancake - No Gains :(

[trebormint]

Took my car (toledo 1.9tdi 110) back to P-Torque today.

Since last October when it made 143bhp and 256lbs/ft, I've put on a free-flowing back box, decat, PD150 Manifold with replacement EGR pipe and a 1.8T metal pancake pipe from turbo to intercooler.

Did I get any gains? Nope. Big fat zero - well ok 0.7bhp! Made 143.7bhp and 248lbs/ft.

Strangely peak power was made lower down the rev range - 3812rpm as against 4,500rpm previously. Though it kept producing power - 138bhp @ 4,500rpm, 127bhp @ 4750rpm.

However I'm down on power between 2,400 and 3,000rpm.

Will kindly tried to see if we could do a custom map but to no avail.

Ideally needs a PD130 turbo and uprated injectors, and with that a new clutch. Might as well get a PD130 vw/seat based car and modify that - would be cheaper me thinks.

 

[brad1]

One thing to remember mate, big temperature difference plays a big part have you not noticed in this 20+ degrees heat how the car doesn't pull as hard on the road as it would do in colder weather, same on the rollers aswell

 

[Husbandofstinky]

Aye. As soon as I saw the thread I thought temperature. It'll go much better when air's colder and denser.

 

[Mikey_H]

thirding that.

I had my car run at the same place on two different days with different temps and the first day (colder) it ran 8bhp more than the warmer day. On your dyno printouts it should have the ambient temp written on it have a look and see what the difference is i would be willing to have a bet with you that the temps are different. Prob only slightly with the tiny ammount of hp difference.

 

[trebormint]

Yep, I fully realise that ambient temps play a big part in the performance.

Though doesn't explain the lack of performance I have felt since changing from standard inlet to PD150 inlet, and I was using the standard one in the hot weather we had previously.

It really seems to lose low-end torque for torque higher up the rev range. I've noticed it on road too.

Considering running water/meth injection - might help things keep cool

I can get the devil's own installed as they are only down the road from me.

 

[Mikey_H]

yea i'm going for water meth to clean up the black smoke and hopefully get a slight gain from it. have you had it re-mapped since changing the inlet?

 

[trebormint]

yea i'm going for water meth to clean up the black smoke and hopefully get a slight gain from it. have you had it re-mapped since changing the inlet?

Yes (as in first post), Will @ P-Torque tried to get more fuel in but we were at the limit really.

Either got to go to PD130 turbo and T4 nozzles or try water/meth injection.

 

[Mikey_H]

Sorry wasn't to clear in your first post as to whether you have actually had it mapped or not. Well if you have the money why not go for a hybrid 130 turbo or better still the 150. Depends on what you want I would imagine water/meth should help aslong as the guys your using are good at mapping. That would be the cheaper option anyway.

 

[jamiebennett81]

yep, my car clocked 32 on the temp gauge today, and it was bloody hot today, hottest it has felt so far and the car was definitely sluggish even with a large FMIC

you cant compensate for air temps like this

try on a colder day mate later in the year

 

[P-torque.co.uk]

Hi Rob

As mentioned on the day, we ran your car on a warmer day, and you will always get a little variation.

The turbo is at its safe limit, and we may have gained +5hp by custom mapping, I wouldn't be happy taking your money for such a small gain, plus you would start getting black smoke out the back. The P-Torque stage 1 software running approx 145hp and 250lbs/ft torque is already pulling very good figures

I recommend uprated injectors along with turbo, and then we can custom map it to approx 175hp

 

[Mikey_H]

free remaps? when can i book in? hahaha

 

[trebormint]

Hi Rob

As mentioned on the day, we ran your car on a warmer day, and you will always get a little variation.

The turbo is at its safe limit, and we may have gained +5hp by custom mapping, I wouldn't be happy taking your money for such a small gain, plus you would start getting black smoke out the back. The P-Torque stage 1 software running approx 145hp and 250lbs/ft torque is already pulling very good figures

I recommend uprated injectors along with turbo, and then we can custom map it to approx 175hp

Hi Will,

Nothing against p-torque Realise the fueling is at the max, I do need a reliable car for the miles I do.

Also appreciate the amount of time you spent on my car trying to eek out some more performance!

Fitted the coolant temp sensor you said was playing up and the car feels so much better and is using less fuel!

Thanks again.

PS. What do you think of using water/meth injection - is it worth doing. it is cheaper than turbo/injectors