Latest mod pictures...my hybrid Ibiza - now sold!

[majesty78]

Thats because these figures are not REAL, its the same with torque figures which would ruin every tranny within shortest time...

In other forums i dont very often see those numbers, actually this is the only forum i know where all tuners claim to reach those numbers.


And the funny thing about that: In internal/professional tuning forums THE SAME people/tuners post up far lower numbers in the range like i post them up.

Its all about business, and thats my advantage in this case, I dont want to sell anything.

 

[brad1]

Do you ever say anything that isnt negative? Have you said the same thing to every hybrid owner on every single VAG forum?

There are tuners who are consistently getting these results and you must be the only guy I know who doubts all of them.

You come and give some good troubleshooting tips but you ruin everything by your constant whining about figures.

Totally agreed maz, i was wanting to say the same thing but couldnt word it quick enough before your reply lol

 

[majesty78]

See what high torque figures cause: If you exceed 400Nm, the torsion on driveshafts gets so high, that the rubber boots begin to move and twist on the axle....

Tell me, how many people who claim to have 400-450Nm (as told them by their tuners) have such issues? (At least at this forum i dont know one single person..)

this is how it should look like:

 

[sooty22]

iv had this..... broken cv joints engine mounts etc....

 

[majesty78]

Broken is something different to twisted boots*g*

 

[1.9...stefan]

Broken is something different to twisted boots*g*

broken sounds worse to me????

 

[Ibiza 130 tdi]

Do you ever say anything that isnt negative? Have you said the same thing to every hybrid owner on every single VAG forum?

There are tuners who are consistently getting these results and you must be the only guy I know who doubts all of them.

You come and give some good troubleshooting tips but you ruin everything by your constant whining about figures.

Must admit I've noticed that every hybrid derv thread he's said it's all bullshit too! Funny that - Im not taking it to heart.

It's strange how Majesty says that he's telling the truth as he's not trying to sell anything - which is an ok statement. But, if you were selling stuff and fixing dyno figures - e.g saying they are producing more than they are, then how come when you go to a rolling road day or on a seperate rolling road - the figures are very similar and yet they arent trying to sell you anything and dont have a clue what power you're running?

iv had this..... broken cv joints engine mounts etc....

So has T.Spark from talking to him at the weekend!

 

[Ibiza 130 tdi]

broken sounds worse to me????

Same!

 

[majesty78]

Broken comes from short hit, which can be caused by short overstress, like slipping from clutch pedal for example, twist/torsion comes from constant high torque.

Why rolling roads show almost equal numbers is part of business.

If you would have skills and background information about PD hardware and R&D documents you would know that I am right.

Its not that i make your cars bad, damn, I drive the same by myself and i love it and also KNOW that they are very fast when modified, its just the numbers with which tuners fool customers.

I know no one will ever send me the softwarre they are running, if someone would i could proof it, but that would let the tuner(s) stand under a very bad light.

There are so simple physical laws, which even companys like VW Motorsports or VLN Race ( Said: 285hp, had 240hp) series supporters cant set out.

The hybrid turbo is not capable of 1.9bar @4200rpm for longer lasting. 2800hpa @ 4200rpm are very clear the material limit it one has 1100hPa external enviroment pressure.
If is bad weather and only 950hPa it should not become more than 2750hPa .
For 230 HP you would need 83 mg /stroke IQ @ 4200revs. With 78 mg / stroke and 1.9bar you get beginning soot and you are in the limit of the turbo.
83 mg / stroke means 40.5 ° duration, because we are in KF _O.
This are again 1.8 ° more than you must inject for 80 mg / stroke.

Nevertheless, if you already start with 27 ° before TDC @ 4200rpm you have an efficiency loss, because you can not compensate the ignition delay after more than 4000rpm any more. The end of injection would lay about 5 ° later than OEM in this case. Therefore he does not get the same efficiency out of the injected 83 mg / stroke at all...
You do not get out the necessary amount of fuel of the stock PDEs, so that it would be enough for 230 HP. .
However, these figures haunt the whole chip tuning area since ever....

 

[air121005]

I had it turned down twice. It was 240.9bhp and about 370-380ft/lb. But i've had it turned down twice to try to cut the smoke back a bit. It's still quite smokey when you boot it though!

I reckon now it's producing about 220-225bhp and 360-370ft/lb

I clean it weekly anyway so doesnt make too much difference!

Mines only really smokey when planting it. I can use 9/10 of the throttle and it be fine, but when caning it gets a bit dirty

if its only really smokey on 100% throttle and not to bad at any other time, why retard the power down?
knowing the £££ you've spent, if it was me, i'd put up with a bit of smoke and a weekly car clean for an extra 15 / 20 bhp and associated torque.

not having a pop, just struggling to see why spend all the £££ and only use 90% of the product???
a bit like buying a HDTV and using a scart lead rather than a HDMI lead........

240 bhp = between 4250 and 4500 according to the graph!

About 2600-2700rpm it produces that torque.

240bhp and 300 ft/lbs must be nice to have just before changing gear
doesn't seem much point in accelerating past 4250 rpm as the torque starts fading away then.
good figures though!

very good bhp graph!!
200bhp from 2500rpm, nice!

quite surprised that the torque drops off so quick from 380ftlbs @ 2750rpm, 40 ft/lbs over the duration of only a few 250 revs and below 320 before 3300rpm.... a drop of 60 ft/lbs over 600rpm......

Yeh I heard someone else say that about polishing the inlet mani too. He'd been talking to Mikey H too.

when i was looking into polishing and porting heads (on a previous car), i read that it was more beneficial to NOT polish the intake manifold as the rough surface agitated the intake air, so it mixed with the fuel better, creating a more efficient fuel burn.
maybe the smooth air caused by polishing the intake manifold doesn't allow all fuel to burn efficiently, thus less smoke

 

[majesty78]

when i was looking into polishing and porting heads (on a previous car), i read that it was more beneficial to NOT polish the intake manifold as the rough surface agitated the intake air, so it mixed with the fuel better, creating a more efficient fuel burn.
maybe the smooth air caused by polishing the intake manifold doesn't allow all fuel to burn efficiently, thus less smoke

This may be correct on non turbo engines with indirect injection.

In TDI there is no mixture of air and fuel outside of combustion chamber, fuel comes directly into the cylinder.

On a turbo diesel direct injection engine polishing, porting and upgrading valve size will increase flow of AIR only and will make better volumetric efficiency.

Greets, Alex

 

[adz2k9]

hmm Alex does talk alot of sense to be fair.. could I just ask how you would go about increasing valve size?

but the best way to tell is have a direct rolling start head to head with a proven factory 240-250bhp car i.e. mk5 r32.. given the weight factor you should pull away.. my mates got one, and this is what I will be doing when I'm mapped up.. that should solve alot of debates.. not technically the best way to do it but its the way the car drives which is more important than the numbers, if I can outrun or stay on the bumper of a mk5 r32 i'd be happy!

it would be interesting if you could get a 0-100 vid up of the speedo?

 

[jonjay]

Alex, I have no doubt that you have more technical knowledge that a hell of a lot of people on this forum including me. I think everyone on SeatCupra.net welcomes your technical knowledge in these matters.

However lets be absolutely clear, cars have got over 220BHP. You know that every car is different and internal parts are never the same. Even the slightest difference in size on any internal part can produce different power results. I seriously doubt that the major tuners on here fix their rolling road results as people from around the country on many different rollers including ones abroad have proven they got over 220BHP on stock injectors. Devonutopia who is very active on TDIclub.com has done this however I havent seen you question his figures?

Also lets be clear IT IS NOT the BHP that is dangerous for the cars it is the torque that is dangerous for our cars. I agree that once you start to reach near 500nm of torque you will have a whole host of problems.

 

[air121005]

This may be correct on non turbo engines with indirect injection.

In TDI there is no mixture of air and fuel outside of combustion chamber, fuel comes directly into the cylinder.

On a turbo diesel direct injection engine polishing, porting and upgrading valve size will increase flow of AIR only and will make better volumetric efficiency.

Greets, Alex

ah right!
that makes sense...... it allows more air into the chamber to mix with the same amount of fuel, thus less fuel to air in the chamber at point of ignition, resulting in less smoke!

by the way, when i was reading up on polishing / porting, it was for/about a non turbo petrol.

 

[majesty78]

Alex, I have no doubt that you have more technical knowledge that a hell of a lot of people on this forum including me. I think everyone on SeatCupra.net welcomes your technical knowledge in these matters.

However lets be absolutely clear, cars have got over 220BHP. You know that every car is different and internal parts are never the same. Even the slightest difference in size on any internal part can produce different power results. I seriously doubt that the major tuners on here fix their rolling road results as people from around the country on many different rollers including ones abroad have proven they got over 220BHP on stock injectors. Devonutopia who is very active on TDIclub.com has done this however I havent seen you question his figures?

Also lets be clear IT IS NOT the BHP that is dangerous for the cars it is the torque that is dangerous for our cars. I agree that once you start to reach near 500nm of torque you will have a whole host of problems.

Thank you for your positive words, but i am not half as skilled as i would like to be.

I know there are many cars out here which post up more than 220hp, and i have seen some of those softwares running on them. None had the necessary injection quantity to proof these numbers in the file they where running.
You are right, there are several dynos showing up these numbers, and guess what, i believed in them myself

I had dyno plots from my car with 210hp/450Nm, and in the end there where REAL 190hp/380Nm....
Now, with REAL 210hp/420Nm I understand how fast this is and how rude this is to the material.

As stated before, its not my goal to be the one who nows best, everybody is invited to PROOF me I am wrong.

By the way, the production tolerances of Bosch injectors are less than 0.5%, so no way to gain another 20hp out of injectors which maybe slightly better in flow.

And again:
Both, to high torque AND to high hp are dangerous, the torque down low destroys through mechanical torture, high hp destroy because of excessive exhaust manifold pressure, exhaust gas temperatures (making vanes sticky for example....) and excessive cylinder pressure.

I have seen bent or broken rods, cracked pistons, broken apart crankshafts and so on. A blown headgasket is the least problem you can have.

It might be that you can reach higher numbers for a short period on a dyno queen, using the balloon effect of PD injectors, but that is a borderline mapping which I would never ever sell to any customer if i where a tuner.

If these numbers all where real and correct, you would have broken engines over and over, therefore you dont even need 230hp...

(By the way, take a look to the compressor housing of TD MD376 turbo. Compressor outlet diameter is still STOCK size (1" ish?), inside port of compressor housing is still STOCK size, only a big wheel in a small housing doenst do the same effect as an all over bigger compressor housing what depends flow capabilitys.)

Greets, Alex

 

[seat_lion]

not that I'm trying to defy your knowledge or anything but by real figures are you more talking of WHP and Wheel torque rather than the Fly figures which all the tuners give you just seems to me that all this talk of Real figures is more and more sounding like Wheel figures rather than the fly figures

like I said I'm not trying to defy your knowledge or anything

 

[majesty78]

I am talking about bhp, not whp.

With 210bhp you get about corrected 165-170whp.

With saying REAL, i mean TRUE.

Most aftermarket dynos/rolling roads have issues with high torque numbers at low engine speed which spreads up to wrong calculation over the whole rev band and wrong results.

If you would put an engine on a real engine dyno which takes of power direct at crank, and compare those two measurings, you see the difference.

Greets, Alex

 

[rscott4563]

Alex, from the posts of yours I have read on this and other threads it seems that basically what you are saying is that regardless of what figures people are getting on dynos they are wrong and over reading.

So basically your opinion is that all dynos out there doing power figures are incorrect and the operators are lying?

So take this as an example:
Rolling Road day on a Dyno Dynamics chassis dynometer at an independant garage (i.e. no tuning being carried out so no vested interest).

A totally standard LCR goes on and gets accurate figures as quoted by the manufacturer. Next up a generic stage 1 mapped 130PD Ibiza goes on and gets around 160bhp & 260lbft (well within the norm for a remap) and then finally a Leon with a Turbo Dynamics MD376 hybrid turbo goes on and posts 235bhp & 350lbft.

You would say the figures are BS and the dyno is wrong, but I would ask how can the dyno read 2 cars correctly and then all of a sudden read another car above what it can possibly be producing (according to you)??

Cheers

Ryan

 

[1.9...stefan]

So take this as an example:
Rolling Road day on a Dyno Dynamics chassis dynometer at an independant garage (i.e. no tuning being carried out so no vested interest).

A totally standard LCR goes on and gets accurate figures as quoted by the manufacturer. Next up a generic stage 1 mapped 130PD Ibiza goes on and gets around 160bhp & 260lbft (well within the norm for a remap) and then finally a Leon with a Turbo Dynamics MD376 hybrid turbo goes on and posts 235bhp & 350lbft.

You would say the figures are BS and the dyno is wrong, but I would ask how can the dyno read 2 cars correctly and then all of a sudden read another car above what it can possibly be producing (according to you)??

Cheers

Ryan

i was trying to think of something like this to say... best example you can give imo

 

[majesty78]

Because, like stated before most dynos got issues with high torque at low rpm...