RobDon's Leon -

[RobDon]

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/m...&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-201&Category_Code=VVWTK

Kit now uses an up-pipe and upper downpipe to top-mount the turbo. Nothing new as YB Cosworth, Subaru, EVO's and Nissan all use up-pipes and upper downpipes etc. for a long time. My only concern is the weight of the up-pipe and turbo attached to the manifold, I've asked ATP if they include some kind of turbo brace but all they say is they've had no problems with the new Elim 2 kits and great results. Using off-the-shelf Garrett turbos should mean better reliability too, I just hope their castings are better quality.

I'd buy this turbo hanger from 034 and get a steel bracket to support the turbo: http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_33&products_id=704

At $2000 for the 350 kit including shipping to the UK = £1401.04. Add maybe £50 for VAT and import duty and it's around £1450 to get a GT28RS on your car. Add £300 for a set of 550cc Genesis injectors and there you go for £1750. Add injectors to BDM kit and it's £2800.

At £1,000 cheaper than the Backdraft kit it has to be worth considering.

 

[Feel]

At £1,000 cheaper than the Backdraft kit it has to be worth considering.

It's still an engineered compromise, though.

The BD is kit, is a "proper" kit, proper manifold etc, and I think includes charge pipes, inlet, full 3" dp and sports cat plus all the other guff. As an outright purchase, the price comparison actually makes the BD kit look like a bargain, but I guess it depends what YOU need, i.e. where you're starting from - if you already have a 3" dp, for example, getting another one looks less of a bargain even if you need it to fit the turbo.

Would you run the ATP kit on a standard manifold? Would have to add in the cost of a high flow. Also, looking at the atp site, the inlet isn't included, it's only another $200, though. Based on their track record, what are the chances it'll actually fit.

I guess the question is "is the compromise worth £1k?".

 

[RobDon]

All true yes and I fully agree with you, but £1k is alot of money which does make it worth considering and hard to ignore. I wouldn't bother with the ATP inlet, could make my own 3" inlet for £50 or less. I already have a high flow manifold, 3" DP etc..

'Little' already said that the GT28RS Elim 2 kit is making 352bhp at 23psi - good result.

 

[jamiebennett81]

It's still an engineered compromise, though.

The BD is kit, is a "proper" kit, proper manifold etc, and I think includes charge pipes, inlet, full 3" dp and sports cat plus all the other guff. As an outright purchase, the price comparison actually makes the BD kit look like a bargain, but I guess it depends what YOU need, i.e. where you're starting from - if you already have a 3" dp, for example, getting another one looks less of a bargain even if you need it to fit the turbo.

Would you run the ATP kit on a standard manifold? Would have to add in the cost of a high flow. Also, looking at the atp site, the inlet isn't included, it's only another $200, though. Based on their track record, what are the chances it'll actually fit.

I guess the question is "is the compromise worth £1k?".

completely agree

Having been there, got the t-shirt (multiple times over) it is worth "every" penny for paying for a proper kit which you know will fit....other than buying a kit from ATP and having to replace or change parts which dont work properly

If I had gone to BDMS in the first place I would have probably saved money by now and not gone through all the trouble I have been through - a learning curve indeed

my advice to anyone reading this, is to splash out on a proper tried and tested kit, because you know it will fit and for peace of mind. and in case of any issues you have a UK tuner/supplier you can call into to get any niggling issues sorted. Aftercare and support being the key aspect here

looking at that turbo bracket Rob, how would that work....trying to work out the logistics of it

 

[RobDon]

No doubt Backdraft is a top-notch kit, if I had the money if go for it without question, but saving a grand is hard to ignore, cash is cash no matter what the kit is - £1750 Vs £2800 is a huge difference, especially if the end power result is the same.

 

[RobDon]

I have removed the SEM manifold again, possibly for good this time. I am fed up waiting for the 70mm throttle body and it does not run right on the 80mm, never has done - runs SO much better on the stock TB and BAM manifold.

I am considering selling the SEM at this point.

 

[jamiebennett81]

No doubt Backdraft is a top-notch kit, if I had the money if go for it without question, but saving a grand is hard to ignore, cash is cash no matter what the kit is.

cash wasn't my point Rob, it was a tried and tested kit that you knew fitted

hand on heart, can you honestly say the ATP kit, bought directly from ATP is a good quality kit?

 

[RobDon]

Cash IS a major factor though, everyone has budgets to work from, some tighter than others.

My ATP kit lasted around 2 years which isn't too bad and I believe everyone deserves a second chance to redeem themselves and improve. Backdraft appear to have a few people questioning the quality of their kits too, it's always very difficult to choose something like a turbo kit on blind faith.

 

[jamiebennett81]

Cash IS a major factor though, everyone has budgets to work from, some tighter than others.

My ATP kit lasted around 2 years which isn't too bad and I believe everyone deserves a second chance to redeem themselves and improve. Backdraft appear to have a few people questioning the quality of their kits too, it's always very difficult to choose something like a turbo kit on blind faith.

who is questioning it though.....other tuners. They would Rob, bad publiciity for one tuning company is good profits for another

I doubt for one that Alex workig at BDMS would be installing shoddy kits, personally from meeting him, he is a great guy and I would have every bit of confidence in him working on my car (just from seeing the level of detail he has put into his own car speaks volumes)

 

[RobDon]

Other tuners yeah, most likely jealous! BDM kit is the one to have, no doubt, I believe they've sold over 100 BT kits and not one cracked manifold!

As said saving a grand is hard to ignore but may end up costing that in repairs if shortcuts have been taken.

I wish Backdraft did credit so you could pay it up monthly, I believe APR now do that now for their Stage 3+ kits.

 

[jamiebennett81]

Other tuners yeah, most likely jealous! BDM kit is the one to have, no doubt, I believe they've sold over 100 BT kits and not one cracked manifold!

As said saving a grand is hard to ignore but may end up costing that in repairs if shortcuts have been taken.

I wish Backdraft did credit so you could pay it up monthly, I believe APR now do that now for their Stage 3+ kits.

nail on head there Rob

other tuners of course would say that

and a grand is a very small price to pay....hence look at the problems I have said....some of them due to feckless half wits, but I think the quality of the kit is a little less to be desired

I think that grand more than makes up for everything, in terms of it fitting and most importantly "working" without any problems!

 

[Feel]

How much would you get for the bits you would take off? Manifold, Turbo, DP and Cat, Inlet, Charge Pipes? Or did you already think of that?

 

[jamiebennett81]

How much would you get for the bits you would take off? Manifold, Turbo, DP and Cat, Inlet, Charge Pipes? Or did you already think of that?

if you work it out, the BDMS kit is £4995 and £1450 for internals

£6445

- £800 for the intercooler as part of that package, and the sale of Rob's gt2x, about £1000

so around £4500 for all in possibly?

 

[Scotty_b]

I thought you were impressed with the SEM rob and thats why you put it back on?

 

[RobDon]

BDMS LCR 325bhp kit is £2595 supply only, wouldn't bother with internals at that point. Add £300 for injectors and that's all I need. I have a 3" Milltek DP with sports CAT, Tigart manifold and hybrid GT2X. Maybe get £1k for all that, so £2895 - £1000 = £1895, not that bad actually is it.

Elim 2 GT28RS kit is £1400 + £300 for injectors = £1700. Minus say £500 for selling the hybrid GT2X and it's £1200.

So in real terms there is only £695 difference - be daft not to go for the Backdraft kit then eh!!!


(PS. If I sold the SEM and Pro Alloy intercooler too that would be another £800+ towards the turbo kit too!)

 

[RobDon]

SEM manifold is a great design, but the 80mm TB is causing no end of problems. I refitted it in preparation for the 70mm TB coming, Issam said he sent it 2 weeks ago and nothing yet, I want my car done and back on the road running properly, it runs perfect with the stock TB and BAM manifold.

I wish I'd gone for a smallport SEM with the stock TB - I bet it runs great!

 

[jamiebennett81]

BDMS LCR 325bhp kit is £2595 supply only, wouldn't bother with internals at that point. Add £300 for injectors and that's all I need. I have a 3" Milltek DP with sports CAT, Tigart manifold and hybrid GT2X. Maybe get £1k for all that, so £2895 - £1000 = £1895, not that bad actually is it.

Elim 2 GT28RS kit is £1400 + £300 for injectors = £1700. Minus say £500 for selling the hybrid GT2X and it's £1200.

So in real terms there is only £695 difference - be daft not to go for the Backdraft kit then eh!!!

BDMS kit then Rob, as you no it is tried, tested, fits, and works?

 

[RobDon]

Looks more promising than I thought yes, If I sold everything I have lying around plus my turbo, DP and manifold I could swap to the Backdraft 325bhp kit for only around £1k!

 

[jamiebennett81]

Looks more promising than I thought yes, If I sold everything I have lying around plus my turbo, DP and manifold I could swap to the Backdraft 325bhp kit for only around £1k!

two words "Doooooooooo it"

 

[RobDon]

Hehe ... probably soon yes!

Here's some pics of the completed front end:

http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll330/SonicBlueLeon/car1.jpg
http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll330/SonicBlueLeon/car2.jpg

New rims and tyres, Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 in gloss black, 18 x 8", ET35:

http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll330/SonicBlueLeon/pr12.jpg

Tyres are Falken FK452:

http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll330/SonicBlueLeon/fk452.jpg

Once the new wheels are on next Thursday I'll be machine polishing the entire car to get it swirl and scratch-free and looking it's best. I'm aiming to have the car all finished in 2-3 weeks time.