A 1.4 sport increased to a 1.6

Poverty

Guest
Apparently the 1.4 and the 1.6 VAG' engines are completely the same in terms of design with the 1.6 simply having a longer stroke. And also its meant to be easy to turn the 1.4 into a 1.6!

That should give over 100hp out of the 1.4. Im now wondering whether the 1.4 100 bhp models VAG have been selling are infact a 1.4 with the 1.6 bits.

Im certainly a bit confused about this and will have to find out more.

However would anyone here even be interested in getting their 1.4 up to a 1.6/100hp ?
 

Poverty

Guest
Sadly it cannot be done with the 1.2 as its a different design. 3 cylinders after all. Seems like a 1.4 can be easily turned into a 1.6 lupo GTI spec engine. Im really considering getting this done. Need to contact a few people and get prices for all the parts. Wonder how hard it is to do? I work on boilers day in day out but cars seem alot more complicated to me?

Anyone have any comments or someone I could contact about this?
 

Nath.

The Gentlemans Express
Jan 1, 2006
8,620
16
EASTLEIGH, HAMPSHIRE
Legally a 1400 must have a CC of 1400 or there abouts (maybe 10 or ro cc over or under)

A stroked 1.4 that has a capacity of 1.6 is a 1.6. end of
 

Poverty

Guest
Legally a 1400 must have a CC of 1400 or there abouts (maybe 10 or ro cc over or under)

A stroked 1.4 that has a capacity of 1.6 is a 1.6. end of

Ok so the 1.4 100hp units must not be the same as the 1.6 then. I always found it odd that VAG sold a 1.4 100hp car along with a 1.6 103hp engine.

Still though I want to get my 1.4 to 1.6 GTI spec as long as I can do it for a grand or so.
 

matt_s

4 8 15 16 23 42
Dec 23, 2004
654
19
Legally a 1400 must have a CC of 1400 or there abouts (maybe 10 or ro cc over or under)

A stroked 1.4 that has a capacity of 1.6 is a 1.6. end of

A 1400 can be anywhere between 1350 and 1449. My 1.8T and yours are 1781cc so the +/- 10cc argument hold no water.

Of course if you change a 1400 to 1600 you have to tell the dvla and insurance.
 

Poverty

Guest
should be able to bore it out, may be costly though!

Apparently its done without boring it out? No idea really. Gonna PM a guy whose done it and see what he has to say and a rough price. He reckons hes running 140hp in his 1.4 and is gonna go for a 8000rpm rev limit once its run in and remapped.
 

Skisbp

Full Member
Apparently its done without boring it out? No idea really. Gonna PM a guy whose done it and see what he has to say and a rough price. He reckons hes running 140hp in his 1.4 and is gonna go for a 8000rpm rev limit once its run in and remapped.

Nice as the 1.6 16v Polo/Lupo GTI's ran between 120-125hp based on year... Would be really interested how this endeavor turns out, seeing I'm running the same 1.4 16V 100hp! If you believe that no Boreing out is needed. Then the increases may be coming from a longer stroke. Plus very high octane fuel etc. etc. etc.!!! If some quick looking over of some AVY&BZZ engine schematics + googleing around a little it does look to be a straight parts 4 parts work up... Might have to consider not changing the Cam belt on time so I have an excuse to!!!:whistle:
 

Poverty

Guest
Nice as the 1.6 16v Polo/Lupo GTI's ran between 120-125hp based on year... Would be really interested how this endeavor turns out, seeing I'm running the same 1.4 16V 100hp! If you believe that no Boreing out is needed. Then the increases may be coming from a longer stroke. Plus very high octane fuel etc. etc. etc.!!! If some quick looking over of some AVY&BZZ engine schematics + googleing around a little it does look to be a straight parts 4 parts work up... Might have to consider not changing the Cam belt on time so I have an excuse to!!!:whistle:

Yes apparently its just got a longer stroke. Sent the guy a PM and gonna phone a tuner tomorrow hopefully if I have some time!

Really wanna do this on my car. Would motivate me to get coilovers and some lightweight alloys if it can be done for under a grand!
 

muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
Presumably that means switching to a longer throw crankshaft...which I'm fairly certain would be an engine out job.

Do the 1.4 and 1.6 have the same bore size, cylinder head and pistons ?

Fitting a longer-throw crank might give you the 1600 capacity, I'd be concerned whetehr the head/pistons are the same else you might end up with a too-high compression ratio ?
 

Poverty

Guest
Presumably that means switching to a longer throw crankshaft...which I'm fairly certain would be an engine out job.

Do the 1.4 and 1.6 have the same bore size, cylinder head and pistons ?

Fitting a longer-throw crank might give you the 1600 capacity, I'd be concerned whetehr the head/pistons are the same else you might end up with a too-high compression ratio ?

Yes its an engine out job and the compression increases/decreases depending on how you look at it. Not sure how it works on engines as such. And I think the throw crank does get changed.
 

Poverty

Guest
Ive had a reply from veedubdude!

Right, Ive learnt alot since I started, and Ill try and get the basics over.

The 1.4, and 1.6 engines are basically exactly the same. The thing that increases the 1.4 up to the 1.6 is the crank, rods, and pistons. However - (Ive found this out since I first started the build) it is not possible to swap them over onto the 1.4 block. The problem being the 1.4 block is aluminium; (Im yet to come across a 1.4 block that isnt the aluminium one) and hence once the crank bolts are loosened, the whole block actually distorts, which means the tolerances for the shells arent correct, which means rapid engine wear and failure. A couple of people have questioned this, but check out any haynes manual, or if you have access to it VW's own ELSA programme, and it is clearly stated. You cant even order parts for any of the short block engine from VW except for the 1.6 16V GTi engines (as found in the lupo and polo GTi's).

Which is one of the reasons I rebuilt my engine again onto the lupo GTi block when I found out this information - plus the fact the 1.6 16V GTi engine is built onto a cast iron block which is stronger.

All the heads are the same, valves, roller rockers etc throughout the range, so you can use what you already have. Only difference is the cams used throughout the range. The standard 1.4 16V 75bhp cams have never been run on a GTi block, so I dont know what the outcome would be... Ive personally gone for the cams out of the 1.4 16V 100bhp lupo sport engine; so will have results as to how they do when I finally get her all mapped up on the rolling road!

So my advice would be to swap the short engine over - only thing that needs changing is the flywheel. You just need the flywheel and clutch from your original engine so that it interfaces with your gearbox correctly. The 1.4 flywheel is actually lighter than the 1.6, so this acts as a free mod! The only problem si technically the 1.4 engine redline at 6k RPM, whereas the lupo GTi redlines at 7k RPM. Personally I dont see this being a problem, but its something you should be aware of.

The lupo boys have had the GTi's remapped up to 8k RPM with no problem, which is what I intend to do too, as there seems to be no problems with this.

Next is the air intake - if you have the plastic inlet manifold Id suggest changing it over for the lupo/polo GTi metal one, plus injectors, fuel rail, and TB. These should be plug and play. Only thing I found was that I had to splice into some coolant pipes for the new TB as it needs cooling.

In terms of mapping the engine, you will have to check what ECu you have got. Ive had two different sources of information - stealth racing have said the magnetti marelli ECU needs a chip replaced before it can be mapped, whereas the bosach ECu can be mapped up straight away. (I think thats the right way round, Ill have to check for you) ********* have said they can map both it doesnt matter... NOw the bosch and magnetti marelli where both used ont he 1.4 and 1.6s depending on year of manufacture, so thats something you'll have to find out for yourself.

Finally - the weakest link is going to be your gearbox. I dont know what the gearbox is like on the seat 1.4/1.6s but the golf mk4 1.4/1.6s have an inherent problem with the crown wheel in the dif being held on with rivets. These break regularly with 75bhp, so with double that and more I cant see the gearbox lasting too long... Good news, the rivet fix kit should cure this if the worst does happen (replaces rivets with bolts) and then work fine, however a recon box will set you back around the £500 mark...

Hope thats of help, anymore info you need just ask!
 

Fl@pper

Back older greyer and less oilier but always hope
Jun 19, 2001
12,368
25
Gloucester
so its upped to a 1.6 using a 1.6 bottom end and appropiate cams/manifiold? for that work you may as well stick a whole 1.6 in anyway ?

or cam up the 1.4 and tune to match - will be somewhat of a compromise but for less work but personally i'd outweigh the loss power of extra 50cc per cylinder against the weight of an ali block to a cast one

interesting though

just to add : considering just how well the later corsa's respond to t/bodies on a very similar engine it might be worth considering as an option
 
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Poverty

Guest
so its upped to a 1.6 using a 1.6 bottom end and appropiate cams

for that work may as well stick a whole 1.6 in anyway ?

or cam up the 1.4 and tune to match - will be somewhat of a compromise for less work

I think Im going to go for the cammed route now, as it should be drastically cheaper in terms of labour? How hard is it to change the cams? Suppose I would need a remap after that?

So I could fit some lupo GTI Throttle bodies to this car also?
 
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CHR15B

Active Member
May 5, 2005
2,567
9
Scotland
Seems a waste, I mean a 100HP 1.6 N/A petrol isn't exactly impressive anyways.

Take into your increased insurance premium and resale value of the car then think if its worth it or not.
 

Poverty

Guest
Seems a waste, I mean a 100HP 1.6 N/A petrol isn't exactly impressive anyways.

Take into your increased insurance premium and resale value of the car then think if its worth it or not.

well if someone was to do the 1.6 conversion most people would aim for 140hp. The 1.4 however can go up to 125hp.

If its easily enough done with just stealing some parts from a wrecked lupo gti people who have the know how could get a cheap power boost. Just want to play about with this car a little until the new FR is out in feb/march

Doing more research I gather that I would need new injectors, throttle bodies, inlet manifold and cams to see a worthwhile increase.

Skisbp would you be able to find out the differences between the 75, 85 and 100hp 1.4's:

cams
throttle bodies
injectors
and inlet manifold?
 

Fl@pper

Back older greyer and less oilier but always hope
Jun 19, 2001
12,368
25
Gloucester
throttle bodies as said previous are not gonna unlock turbo type power for sure but drove a track corsa last week with rally cams and t/b's and was sooooo much fun

125-140 bhp is narrowing on gti 2.0 8/16v with a lighter engine and when you add tuned gearing/flywheel weight/etc list is endless - depends on budget and limitations or obcession really :)

Don't for get the Junior WRC cars are 1600cc limited

if you got WAY too much cash to spend :) clicky clicky
 
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