Just spent £271

[Willie]

Tbh everything can be removed by hand. It comes down to time and finish. Its gonna take a lot longer and you can normally get a crisper finish via rotary.

There are a few areas that the G220 is better than the PC. Its lighter, has less vibration and better speed control. As far as swirl correction its leagues ahead of the PC and no too far off of a rotary in the right hands. In some situations better like in small hard to get to areas with a spot pad.

 

[Afection2Detail]

I own a PC as well and never had any problems with it as far as DA's go. Never used a G220 and don't intend to get one either. Can understand what you mean about accessing small areas but I was on about the finish it leaves. The G220 will never superseed a rotary because a rotary achieves said crisp finish because it doesnt ossilate (sp).

 

[Willie]

Aye I know that but was just trying to let you know how good the G220 is.

 

[detaildoctor]

Plenty of Sense

Sorry to disagree but having read some of your posts in here and the linked thread you do talk some sense but there is a lot of sh1t mixed in with your comments and I am not sure where you have learnt this but it needs refining.
'Clay bar and polish will not remove wax' being my favourite. If it doesn't then how the hell is it going to get to the clearcoat underneath to remove the bonded contaminents or swirl marks.
The photos show nothing more than a slightly glossier finish and do not show any close up swirl removal under halogen lighting and there is no mention of paint depth readings to see what was actually removed. T-Cut has non diminishing abrasives so it will remove some more obvious marks but leave you with a nicely marred finished and continue to damage your paint as they never breakdown. So the more you rub the more fine marks you will inflict.
It can be done by hand but only really on cars with very soft paint or very fine marring marks, French, Japanese and USA cars and using the right products such as Scratch X. If you tried to do a regular Joe's car you would be here until eternity trying to do VAG paint by hand properly is a no go. It just depends on what standard you are trying to achieve some of us have higher standards than others. You could make a difference but by hand but it is in no way comparable to a machine polish. I originally thought that Ovni yellow had no clearcoat and that was what was causing the fading. The Megs polisher is very good but is no better than a pc the main benefit being the fact that it runs directly on 240v and means no need for a tranny.
Please can you post up this professional detailers guide to hand polishing as all the ones I know use machines and I would be interested to read it.

Amen to all of that daffy, much sense sir indeed. It is not possible to get good results by hand that a machine can do, unless your hands rotate at 1200 rpm. Unlikely.
I always determine my intended results on the best product for the job. For example my Meg 220 works well on certain clear coat types but on my Cupra R (as with all of VAG cars seemingly)not as good as a rotary.

Never re-invent the wheel, learn for the experienced detailers, which is what I did. Face it you wouldn't get a plumber in to fix your wiring would you

 

[Willie]

Aye and theres alot of guys not reading what people post.
This post started with a guy who wanted the best he could get for his car with the money he had (which was limited). For someone with limited cash who was a growing enthusiast would you normally recommend that they buy a rotary, PC or G220??
We'll I didn't think that he should waste his money on these tools. my suggestion was that he could get very good results by hand without spending a premium on the polishers.
But never mind what I really said, its far better of making up your own reality.

So your a other detailer who when removing wax from a car you would tackle it with a clay bar, your customers must get hit with a massive bill for work.
How long does it take you to remove all of the wax from a car with a clay bar??
Are you able to remove it all??

 

[detaildoctor]

My clients never get "Hit" with a big bill as they pay for quality in the first place and know exactly why they use my services. I do a few select jobs and am fortunate to choose the jobs I do. I work on the quality versu quantity rule, as do all decent detailers I know.

You don't ask an electrician to fix your central heating, any more so than you would do by using a car wash if you wanted a good detail.

There are certain rules when detailing and yes a clay bar will remove the surface that needs preparing as it contains china clay in a given quantity which is designed to lift impurities from the paint, such as bird muck, tree sap and bonded contaminants.

Therefore if it couldn't get wax off then it would be slightly pointless. I agree that if you want to achieve a good look without a machine it is possible with some serious work. I started that way and was happy with the results, until I got into machine polishing and paint correction.

You then realise that the two are somewhat different but it is all relative to what you are trying to achieve and your alloted budget.

People who use detailers are in my experience cash rich time poor + want the best job possible. At the end of the day it is all down to what value a person puts on their time.

I see detailing like a lawyer would see conveyancing, pay good money get good results.........

Hope that puts things into context.

 

[Willie]

All I want the people who are very new to car care to realise is that if you want to remove the wax from your car the first and easiest way of doing this is NOT using a clay bar.

 

[jamiebennett81]

All I want the people who are very new to car care to realise is that if you want to remove the wax from your car the first and easiest way of doing this is NOT using a clay bar.

just reading back over your posts as I am a bit confused as you originally argued that good results could be yielded by polishing through hand rather than machine (swirl mark removal by hand)

but cant find reference to where it changed from swirl mark removal by hand to removing wax and the best way to do this...

so if claying the car is not the best way to remove wax, then what is?

my understanding is claying removes all bonded contaminants from the paint, and with this aspect in mind, wax would be a bonded contaminant, although technically not a contaminant but still its bonded to the paint so a clay bar would remove it as that is the process?

 

[Willie]

This is an excert from the number 1 detailers in Scotland web site. I'm fed up with this argument now, I'm very surprised at some of the beliefs of some people and what various products can and can't do, I'm not a professional I do it as a hobby. The points I have raised are directly from findings from a detailer who details cars every day.

"According to clay bar manufacturers, claying should completely strip existing wax or sealant protection. However, in our experience, some of the latest sealants on the market seem to be able to withstand claying. Thus, if your intention was to completely remove your existing wax or sealant protection in order to apply a different last step product, you may need to conduct another removal step. To do this, you have two choices. The first is to apply a full strength all purpose cleaner to the exterior surfaces of your car, leave it to work for 10-15 minutes, then rinse and dry off thoroughly before applying an alternative last step product. The second option is to polish your paint by hand or machine - this will also remove all traces of existing wax or sealant protection."

As the dragons say I'm out, I'll leave you to have your own ideas on this matter further but these are mine.

 

[detaildoctor]

It's all down to opinions but the only thing I would say is that as clay helps gets rid of bonded contaminants, oxidisation and is basically designed to prepare and I stress PREPARE the surface, followed by a good paint cleaner, it's mere existance would be at best questionable, if wax got in it's way.

I am sure this could be argued any way you like but I guess people like Meguiars, Swissol, Zymol, Poorboys et al aren't going to turn round and say what plonkers we are, that wax stuff is right tuff to get off and you know, those idiots in the lab coats have all been sacked and the whole thing is pointless

Can't see it somehow...............