gazjones
Guest
it might be but if you notice anything early enough you should get it done free!!!!!! just make sure you use the brakes alot to stop them sicking together lol!
Dobz
Guest
Same problem as others - rusty rear discs
Mine are exactly the same as the ones in the pic.
I have noticed that over the last week or so my front wheels are excessively black from brake dust(!) or whatever it's called.
Also today, when braking at a roundabout (doing about 50mph) I could feel shuddering through the pedal! Brakes seemed OK at first then as I had to brake a little harder I could feel the shuddering.
With the excessive dust on the front wheels I'm wondering if my rear brakes are working! BTW, traction control was off as I have a problem - the light stays on all the time (so I switched it off).
I bought the car second hand in March this year from Seat dealers in Crewe. I know the traction control is a warranty issue but what about the brakes.
Any help appreciated.
Mine are exactly the same as the ones in the pic.
I have noticed that over the last week or so my front wheels are excessively black from brake dust(!) or whatever it's called.
Also today, when braking at a roundabout (doing about 50mph) I could feel shuddering through the pedal! Brakes seemed OK at first then as I had to brake a little harder I could feel the shuddering.
With the excessive dust on the front wheels I'm wondering if my rear brakes are working! BTW, traction control was off as I have a problem - the light stays on all the time (so I switched it off).
I bought the car second hand in March this year from Seat dealers in Crewe. I know the traction control is a warranty issue but what about the brakes.
Any help appreciated.
as said by mpm1987 the TC light will be off if the TC in fuctional and you will see the light flicker as the TC does it's jod (wheel loosing traction )
when you disable the TC the light comes up on the dash permanantly as a warning that you could slide
are you sure that you have a problem with yours?
also shuddering of the brake pedal when braking from 50 at a roundabout is probably the ABS
working or you could have warped brake disks
have a look at this m8
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/anti-lock-brake.htm
when you disable the TC the light comes up on the dash permanantly as a warning that you could slide
are you sure that you have a problem with yours?
also shuddering of the brake pedal when braking from 50 at a roundabout is probably the ABS
working or you could have warped brake disks
have a look at this m8
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/anti-lock-brake.htm
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if the light is on when u switch the car on , you dont have TCS anyhow , this happened to me once and it turned out to be an ABS sensor , u might not have ABS either come to think of it
Dobz
Guest
When I turn the engine on TCS light comes on then goes off. The red light on the TCS button is on all the time.
I thought ABS was standard on an FR?
I thought ABS was standard on an FR?
yes its standard , what i meant was if u have a fault with the TCS the ABS is usually affected too
the TCS light comes on when u switch on the car then goes out after a couple of seconds , thats it checking the system , when you hit the switch and the light comes on the TCS is deactivated ,
the TCS light comes on when u switch on the car then goes out after a couple of seconds , thats it checking the system , when you hit the switch and the light comes on the TCS is deactivated ,
That sounds normal - the red light on the button is just the illumination - the light switch, electrics window buttons and TCS button are always illuminated
Same corrosion on rear brakes of 9mth old car in November when I got it.
It is granny driver's and not enough load on rear axle (if this has got load proportional rear brakes which I doubt). It is just having too good brakes.. designed to the limit which are underused by 99% of drivers so they rust .. it is not a technical design fault .. just that most drivers do not used their brakes hard enough every now and then.. the cars that fail to rust them tend to have sub standard designs criteria which 99.9% would never notice (unless it is material related.. but they all use cast iron rotors which pretty much all rust at the same rate). Plenty of cars do it but big alloys mean that more people see it now. Use to design and test brakes for a living a decade or more ago...
It is granny driver's and not enough load on rear axle (if this has got load proportional rear brakes which I doubt). It is just having too good brakes.. designed to the limit which are underused by 99% of drivers so they rust .. it is not a technical design fault .. just that most drivers do not used their brakes hard enough every now and then.. the cars that fail to rust them tend to have sub standard designs criteria which 99.9% would never notice (unless it is material related.. but they all use cast iron rotors which pretty much all rust at the same rate). Plenty of cars do it but big alloys mean that more people see it now. Use to design and test brakes for a living a decade or more ago...
Thinking more about this .. I guess it is down to there being too much pad/disc area. This means the pads/discs will last forever if they stay unrusty.. what they need is a smaller swept area which would give higher loads and hence wear more quickly but they may crumble the pads under heavy braking causing a heat/pressure overload. Note braking force is not proportional to area; only pressure/load and arm radius matter. I used to do this on previous cars by fitting aggressive pads on the rear.. or cheap ones that wore out quickly but you may find that this unbalances the car and rears lock up too easily which will seriously reduce your stablity (ie the last thing you want is locking rear brakes) .. ABS should be clever enough to work around this.
Alternative of stopping once in a while on the handbrake gently works... but may stretch your cables if you do it too hard .. so a gentle couple of click drag seems the sensible move.
... and if you want a design fault it is that they migrated front brakes on to the rear of cars without redesign in most cases.. ultimately drum brakes on a light car are just fine .. just that they will fade at different rates to disc brakes on the front and so are a compromise.. back to 99% of folk don't even know they are there!
Alternative of stopping once in a while on the handbrake gently works... but may stretch your cables if you do it too hard .. so a gentle couple of click drag seems the sensible move.
... and if you want a design fault it is that they migrated front brakes on to the rear of cars without redesign in most cases.. ultimately drum brakes on a light car are just fine .. just that they will fade at different rates to disc brakes on the front and so are a compromise.. back to 99% of folk don't even know they are there!
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I used to do this whenever I'd washed my Ibiza.
Drive up and down our street a few times with the handbrake on lightly to get some warmth and dry the pads/discs out, and "normal" braking a few times to dry the fronts out.
Just ignore the handbrake warning beeper !
![[B)]](/forums/styles/seatcupra/oldforumsmileys/shades.gif "Cool [B)]")
Just had a good look at the rear pad area yesterday and it is definitely wrongly designed; a properly designed rear pad is tall and not very wide radially on all the brakes projects I ever signed off on (ex test engineer on brakes.. not calipers but I did build a few thousand while in manufacturing) .. this shape of pad gives the contact area for heat when you really push but on normaly check braking the swept area is very small (thin radially). These pads look like they nicked them off the front of the 1.2 with a handbrake conversion kit added to the caliper.. mine now has rust growing in on one side which makes a noise as it is rough .. and mountains/ridges on the other rear brake.. by conventional mechanics judgements these are scrap on a 05 car.. nice![[:@]](/forums/styles/seatcupra/oldforumsmileys/furious.gif "Furious [:@]")
.. can I be bothered to beat the dealer up on it?
.. or will I just slap them on a lathe at work and dress them up!!
I spent a week or so gently handbraking up to junctions in the country
and while the disc are cleaner .. you will never get rid of the rust scale (1-2mm thick). This exercising of the rear pads needs done regularly.. not just once in a while.
Trouble is .. if left you eventually end up with non functioning or unbalanced rear brakes (not sure if these cars are 3 or 4 channel ABS.. if 3 channel the rears are tied together and in this case you just loose rear brakes..). Now most of the time rear brakes are doing nothing so it does not matter.. until the day you are 4 up in the rain.. when that lack of balance becomes a real issue and you will notice the front locks up all the time .. but at least you do not spin (which is what happens if the rears become too effective).
Quality design by folks who do not understand brakes.. sadly this is often how brakes are designed.. some bright spark at Seat specifies them based upon cosmetic but cheap .. and the brake supplier does it to the letter of the spec without giving the advice of what actually works .. as price wins the contract but giving problems to bright spark does not
Sorry but those stupid 4 pot front calipers fall into the same category.. pretty but messed up as you need such stupid offsets on the wheel to clear the calipers that it means the wheels get damaged all the time .. yet Golf VR6 has just as effective brakes using cast iron 1 pot calipers that will probably still be going in 20 years time and allow sensible wheel offsets.. whereas Seat's glory will be a lot of white dust by then... I guess they are lighter (hence less unsprung mass so better wheel control and hence road holding)
.. can I be bothered to beat the dealer up on it?.. or will I just slap them on a lathe at work and dress them up!!I spent a week or so gently handbraking up to junctions in the country
and while the disc are cleaner .. you will never get rid of the rust scale (1-2mm thick). This exercising of the rear pads needs done regularly.. not just once in a while.Trouble is .. if left you eventually end up with non functioning or unbalanced rear brakes (not sure if these cars are 3 or 4 channel ABS.. if 3 channel the rears are tied together and in this case you just loose rear brakes..). Now most of the time rear brakes are doing nothing so it does not matter.. until the day you are 4 up in the rain.. when that lack of balance becomes a real issue and you will notice the front locks up all the time .. but at least you do not spin (which is what happens if the rears become too effective).
Quality design by folks who do not understand brakes.. sadly this is often how brakes are designed.. some bright spark at Seat specifies them based upon cosmetic but cheap .. and the brake supplier does it to the letter of the spec without giving the advice of what actually works .. as price wins the contract but giving problems to bright spark does not
Sorry but those stupid 4 pot front calipers fall into the same category.. pretty but messed up as you need such stupid offsets on the wheel to clear the calipers that it means the wheels get damaged all the time
.. yet Golf VR6 has just as effective brakes using cast iron 1 pot calipers that will probably still be going in 20 years time and allow sensible wheel offsets.. whereas Seat's glory will be a lot of white dust by then... I guess they are lighter (hence less unsprung mass so better wheel control and hence road holding)
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Just to add info gleaned from rear brakes continuation...
At 7k and 18 mth car already had rusting/failing disc surfaces
Took it down a steep long hill pretty quickly when I got it and managed to fade the discs and create a vapour lock.. seems I glazed the pads and cooked the caliper seals from doing this once!
by 14k and 2 yrs both discs were rusting badly
Used hand brake a in safe places for a while to clean up, rust started to come off.. until one day the grind of dead pads was heard at 19k 2.5 yrs
Fitted cheapo "Powerdrive?" pads/discs for about £45 cost .. hopefully they will be soft enough to wear out quickly and so stay clean!!
Things to note;
1. You do need piston retracter that pushes; I bought a Draper "cube" which I then had to file to fit.. and then use with a G clamp to push piston back while turning cube with 3/8" extention used in side faces. Better to just get the right tool that some said Halfrauds have.
2. Had to remove carrier brackets to get new discs on unlike the OEM discs; the cap screws were real tight; had to use 12" breaker bar on 1/2" adapter from my impact driver with 8mm adapter fitted. Had to use hammer to make sure they had bottomed in the bolt heads due to crud.
3. Outer pads were virtually brand new except for cracking at the backing plate so probably were "glazed".. this gave the illusion that the pads had plenty of life in them while the inner pads near the pistons were doing all the work.
4. One inner surface still had 1mm rust all over disc even though inner pad was nearly worn out and the handbrake had been used!
5. Fit pad with the warn pad sensor on outside or it might fit with caliper, I cut the sensor down to nothing much as these cars do not have warn pad sensor wiring.
6. Pads/discs are for a Mk4 Golf so pretty common.
7. Rear calipers are alluminum alloy; paint falling off already at 30 mths old on inside
8. You will need to scrape the alloy surface flat where it sits on the brake disc. The OEM discs have a groove which the alloys rusts into and creates a bump.. if you just bolt this up you could have loose wheels or unbalanced wheels
9. Caliper outer boot had a cut/crack already... maybe heat related. Not found any reseal kits for these Lucas calipers
10. I removed the handbrake cable to work on the calipers... easier but not required if you have the right tools and are just doing the pads.
11. I washed discs with petrol and masked them off and then used silver hammerite spray twice. The cheapo discs are not zinc plated like the OEM so did this to stop them bursting into rust next week.. not really perfect but we will see!
12. Cannot put alloys down on their backs without damaging paint So cannot use them as safety devices to stop car falling on you
Tools
13mm+15mm spanner for caliper bolts
8mm allen key for carriers + 12" lever
piston retraction tool
Big block of wood (2'x8"x8") to knock wheels off!
Big screwdriver to remove handbrake clip and then lever arm down to remove cable
Grease for threads
Spray Dinotrol 3120 for mating surfaces
Masking tape for paint
Hammerite smooth silver spray paint
.. now if they had just made the pads tall and narrow.. this might not be happening on virtually all these cars..
.. as away .. don't do this unless you have a certificate from Goverment, Insurance company, Seat and everyone else in incompetancy
At 7k and 18 mth car already had rusting/failing disc surfaces
Took it down a steep long hill pretty quickly when I got it and managed to fade the discs and create a vapour lock.. seems I glazed the pads and cooked the caliper seals from doing this once!
by 14k and 2 yrs both discs were rusting badly
Used hand brake a in safe places for a while to clean up, rust started to come off.. until one day the grind of dead pads was heard
at 19k 2.5 yrsFitted cheapo "Powerdrive?" pads/discs for about £45 cost .. hopefully they will be soft enough to wear out quickly and so stay clean!!
Things to note;
1. You do need piston retracter that pushes; I bought a Draper "cube" which I then had to file to fit
.. and then use with a G clamp to push piston back while turning cube with 3/8" extention used in side faces. Better to just get the right tool that some said Halfrauds have.2. Had to remove carrier brackets to get new discs on unlike the OEM discs; the cap screws were real tight; had to use 12" breaker bar on 1/2" adapter from my impact driver with 8mm adapter fitted. Had to use hammer to make sure they had bottomed in the bolt heads due to crud.
3. Outer pads were virtually brand new except for cracking at the backing plate so probably were "glazed".. this gave the illusion that the pads had plenty of life in them while the inner pads near the pistons were doing all the work.
4. One inner surface still had 1mm rust all over disc even though inner pad was nearly worn out and the handbrake had been used!
5. Fit pad with the warn pad sensor on outside or it might fit with caliper, I cut the sensor down to nothing much as these cars do not have warn pad sensor wiring.
6. Pads/discs are for a Mk4 Golf so pretty common.
7. Rear calipers are alluminum alloy; paint falling off already at 30 mths old on inside
8. You will need to scrape the alloy surface flat where it sits on the brake disc. The OEM discs have a groove which the alloys rusts into and creates a bump.. if you just bolt this up you could have loose wheels or unbalanced wheels
9. Caliper outer boot had a cut/crack already... maybe heat related. Not found any reseal kits for these Lucas calipers
10. I removed the handbrake cable to work on the calipers... easier but not required if you have the right tools and are just doing the pads.
11. I washed discs with petrol and masked them off and then used silver hammerite spray twice. The cheapo discs are not zinc plated like the OEM so did this to stop them bursting into rust next week.. not really perfect but we will see!
12. Cannot put alloys down on their backs without damaging paint
So cannot use them as safety devices to stop car falling on youTools
13mm+15mm spanner for caliper bolts
8mm allen key for carriers + 12" lever
piston retraction tool
Big block of wood (2'x8"x8") to knock wheels off!
Big screwdriver to remove handbrake clip and then lever arm down to remove cable
Grease for threads
Spray Dinotrol 3120 for mating surfaces
Masking tape for paint
Hammerite smooth silver spray paint
.. now if they had just made the pads tall and narrow.. this might not be happening on virtually all these cars..
.. as away .. don't do this unless you have a certificate from Goverment, Insurance company, Seat and everyone else in incompetancy
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