Tested - Remapped FR TDI v Civic Type R

[Snoopcousins]

This is not another one of those threads.....

My bro just got himself an 02 Civic Type-R and of course having never driven one I was keen on seeing what the fuss was about!

First of all it is Red and is very similar to my Emocion Red Leon and I think is the best colour for the CTR. It had a Cat-back exhaust (not sure what make but extremely large) which IMO was too loud and a Green panel filter. He wasnt sure if it had anything else but didnt think so.
Anyway, my first impression in sitting in drivers seat was that it was so much more comfortable than the Leon and the quality of everything was spot-on especially for being an 02 model. The steering wheel and seats are what I wish the Leon had (I suppose the new Leon FR would match them).

Straight away pulling out onto street it felt quite torquey but the loud exhaust made me feel i was going quicker than i was. Taking it to the red line was a mighty wierd feeling after driving a diesel for the last 3 years!
From driving it I think it feels faster than the Leon but looking at speedo I've realised the Leon FR TDI is deceptively quick!

Afterwards we got both cars out and managed to have a standing start race (On private road!). I didnt get my best start ever but straight-away I had about a cars length then after about 60mph it was about 2/3 cars length. After we touched 100mph I could see him closing the gap. After about half a mile I was at around 120mph and he was along-side me and would have probably overtaken me if we kept going.

Bearing in mind I know my bro is a better driver and I didnt have the best start and also messed up a little changing to 3rd gear I was pleased enough especially as his CTR has also had a couple of mods.

What is the top speed of the CTR? I didnt think my Leon would have been caught and passed at 120mph.

Sorry if this seems a pointless thread but i have always wondered exactly what the Type-R is like especially as it is the one shows like Top Gear etc hail as the best hot-hatch.
I wonder what Clarkson would say to a SEAT diesel holding its own with it!

Anyway, im not about to run out and change my Leon for a CTR but if I was after a cheaper used car then I defiantely would fancy one. IMHO I think the Leon looks best from the outside but no competition on the inside. I always wonder why the MK1 Cupra/FR never had any 'hot-hatch' touches on the inside.

I would be interested to hear other peoples views especially if they have compared the CTR to a FR TDI. (Should also have mentioned that mine is remapped)

 

[RobM]

Good read that... always interesting to hear comparisons. Must have been mighty weird going to a high revving car with little torque, compared to a low revving car with bucket loads of torque on tap.

 

[Snoopcousins]

Good read that... always interesting to hear comparisons. Must have been mighty weird going to a high revving car with little torque, compared to a low revving car with bucket loads of torque on tap.

Yep was wierd but from reading a lot of comments about the CTR I was expecting it to be sluggish at low revs but it felt quite nippy. I think that might have been because it doesnt have a turbo and im used to turbo-lag until 2k revs.
If i had the type-r i probably would want to rev it everywhere and especially with the exhaust it would be too easy to attract attention! Its easier to speed a bit in the TDI!

 

[RobM]

Hondas greatest trick is matching the engine with a good, suitable gear box.

Low revs / High Torque an High revs / Low Torque doesn't matter so much in terms of outright performance so long as it's matched to the right gearbox and ratios.

What bothered me about the CTR is motorway driving. You have to change down a gear to really make pace ready to overtake. You can do it without, but it takes so much longer and feels much more effort than it does on the Leon.

 

[olaf]

Leon looks much better too, in my opinion!

And less of a boy racer car.

 

[dmmsta]

I have to say that I like the look of both cars but for different reasons.

I quite like sitting next to one at the lights and watching as the CTR driver takes a 2nd look when he does go tearing away from me as he 1st expected.

Mine being only a STD LC I know I don't have a chance if it was at the Pod, but I think a good percentage of CTR drivers do over-estimate their cars!

 

[LiCkWiD]

Dmmsta! What?! I've a standard LC and I've come alongside CTR's and pulled away from them. No issue at all.

This wasn't once or twice.. it's been a few times now during my daily commute, not to mention weekend drives to Southend and the like. I'm sure there is more to it than a simple hands-down CTR beats LC fact.

With a remap and a few obvious mods, I truly believe I could take any standard CTRs with ease. At the moment, standard vs. standard, I'd still rate my LC over the CTR.

Am I doing something right, or what? :S

I quite like sitting next to one at the lights and watching as the CTR driver takes a 2nd look when he does go tearing away from me as he 1st expected.

EDIT: On hind-sight, i think perhaps you meant when he DOESN'T go tearing away? if so Good, I agree with you And if that's the case, ignore the above text

 

[dmmsta]

Dmmsta! What?! I've a standard LC and I've come alongside CTR's and pulled away from them. No issue at all.

This wasn't once or twice.. it's been a few times now during my daily commute, not to mention weekend drives to Southend and the like. I'm sure there is more to it than a simple hands-down CTR beats LC fact.

With a remap and a few obvious mods, I truly believe I could take any standard CTRs with ease. At the moment, standard vs. standard, I'd still rate my LC over the CTR.

Am I doing something right, or what? :S



EDIT: On hind-sight, i think perhaps you meant when he DOESN'T go tearing away? if so Good, I agree with you And if that's the case, ignore the above text

My bad - complete lack of keyboard skills.....you are completely right and I did mean DIDN'T.

Should have read:

"I quite like sitting next to one at the lights and watching as the CTR driver takes a 2nd look when he doesn't go tearing away from me as he 1st expected."

 

[BCM]

NO CHANCE!!!
Sorry Guys but there's no way your beating a CTR in a LC (assuming its standard or even if it has a remap) or a Derv with a map.
Sorry but unless the driver of the CTR gets a yellow bus to school then you will not beat them! 2 of my mates have them and I can only JUST beat him to the 90 mark after that they both pull bout car and a half and then we sit together till bout 150mph.
Sorry to bust your bubble but it wont happen - Race someone with a CTR that can drive! - Then you'll see!

 

[skahigh]

more to the point.....so you pulled away from people at the lights??? how the hell do you know they are flooring it like you????

the stats from parkers put the ctr quicker to 60 than a standard lcr, so a std lc wouldnt have a chance imho.

 

[BCM]

My LCR with Subtle mods stuggles to hold them off till 90!
In fact, i dont even win over a 1/4, if LC's are pumpin them i feel a trade in tomorrow!

 

[RobM]

BCM... it comes down to driver skill. If you come across a better driver in a CTR when you're in your LCR, he will be able to beat you. But if everything is equal, the LCR has the advantage as it has more power and more torque. It's not a night and day difference, but there is no way you should be struggling as much as you make out.

 

[BCM]

Trust me mate, I can drive well enough, good few years in driving, on and off road. A CTR is faster than a LCR, I hate to admit it, but it is, on paper and on open road.
If you get someone that can drive a CTR the way they should be they will pull on a LCR through 3rd gear and after that its about the same upto bout the 150-155 limit!
I've also "raced" a few and beat them,
but racing against a driver who is a friend and i know he can grive and was going for it properly he just takes it ove a standing mile!
Put the same driver in each car and a CTR will win, 1/4 mile and on a track.
I can confidently say that a LC has no chance tho!
Sorry guys!
I'm in no way putting any car down, just stating some facts and findings.

 

[boolay]

Having owned a Type R and now a LC, I would agree std for std of the mark the CTR would win.
In gear tho, there would be less of a difference, CTR still having the edge *as long as it was sitting at around 6k rpm*

I am sure that when my LC is remapped in a couple of weeks, off the mark pace would be the same as a CTR, and in gear acceleration would favour the LC.

CTR is a cracking car, and would recommend it to anyone.

 

[Al_G]

A CTR would beat an LC. In fact I would expect a 182 to also beat an LC.

My LCR (standard) is barely faster than than my friends 172 and it's certainly no quicker than my friends TEG or CTR.

TBH a CTR should slaughter a LC if its being driven correctly. LCRs have 40bhp more than LC's so it kind of makes sence.

 

[skahigh]

the ctr is a very nice car (good looking too) however, does it not get annoying having to rag it everywhere to make use of the vtec? also, i've always found them much more uncomfortable than my lcr (low to the ground and the worlds stiffest suspension!!!).

 

[jellybabybandit]

having driven a CTR i would have thought the LCR would have beaten them off

i used to sit side by side with them when my GSI was running the standard 200bhp

once it was mapped to 250bhp the were still hard to beat but i did do it

 

[BCM]

Al G - THANK YOU!
Finally someone who confirm what I'm saying!
Al G I am the exact same my mates 172(with de-cat and full system) sits with me no too badly,
The Leon is about 200kg heavier than a CTR and bout 300kg heavier than a Clio!
BHP per Metric Tone the Civic and the Clio are about 165(ish)
A 210 LCR is ~154, bit of a diff!
AND - Both Clio and Type R are N/A cars!
N/A cars usually are a bit quicker than a turbo car with similar power.

 

[karlosR]

top speed for the CTR is around 150. i've read somewhere that it only has 142lb ft torque so it needs ragging to get the best from it. they grip like a go-kart on the twisty stuff though!

 

[skahigh]

the problem with the ctr as an everyday car is that they develop most of their power at very high revs so to drive it quickly you have to floor it everywhere!