Devonmikeyboy passes the 300bhp and 400lb torque level from a 2L diesel.

[devonmikeyboy]

Hi Devon my man has the same problem with the new clutch he's put in , in that it slips and wished he'd gone with a 6 puck sintered joby.

Can i ask you what sort of bang for your buck would you have gotten if your injectors could flow say 20/40% more diesel , would you have been able to use a lot less propane or does the Nos react better to propane than it does with diesel.

Or would you be a bit biased because you've had such good results from the gas.

I know very little about NOS so i haven`t got a clue if it works better with diesel or propane. If/when i get larger injectors then i could lower the amount of propane i use if i wanted to stay at the same amount of power but propane is more then half the price of diesel and it seems to help to keep the smoke down to hardly visable so there would be little point. I want bigger injectors to have more power.

@ shadowmaker I am using a hybrid vnt turbo. What vnt turbo would you use to get 350-400bhp with better low end power then ?

 

[basstard]

Yes, I believe that VTx turbos by allard are indeed normal hybrid vnt's that they renamed cos it was cool and would have boosted sales,,, [before I get flames I said I BELIEVE, not that I'm sure]
It would be interesting to know what parts they use for each turbo,,, maybe a VT5 is a 17-20 hybrid??


Shadowmaker it wouldn't be that easy [if possible at all] to turn a vnt-designed system to use a wastegate turbo,,, but then I see your point, 80hp @ 2500 seems way low,,,

Mikey I know that people that change from vnt-15 to vnt-17 use to give half a turn of a complete turn to the vnt actuator arm nut in order to make the turbo boost earlier,,, I know this is a kinda delicate thing to do but maybe it might help in your case??? Whatever you try DON'T GO OVERKILL!!!

 

[Ibiza Evo 2]

A VT2 is a hybrid vnt17/20

 

[golisago]

I've learned a lot off my hubby and others and one thing he has repeated to have said which he knows as fact is that the VT2 from Allard is no part a vnt20 other than the exhaust wheel may in fact be from a vnt20 , having had the exhaust housing of a vnt17 milled out first.

This is because most of there applications are taken from there race development side and by fia rules they can not change turbo housings for a larger unit/s , so they have to be content to mill out vnt17 housings which definetly apply's to the VT2 setup.

And its highly likely with the VT5 also , but the VT7 may in fact be a Gt2260v Gt2359v or possibly one of the Gt25v units.

Mike i would think that its the Nos which is giving you ability to rev to 6000rpm to some degree and has the ability to ignite most any fuel you care to inject into a motor , but moving towards having bigger diesel injector over using that amount of propane is imo a better direction

 

[golisago]

Keep in mind that Lloyd from Allard who races has around 245hp using the said same milled out vnt17 compressor and turbine housings plus a cam on straight diesel.

 

[shadowmaker]

That's a vnt?

Either there's something wrong with the setup or it's just so big.

I would go with gt2260v, because that's dyno proven to make +350hp on diesel. It spools nicely in 3,0L engine as a factory setup, so I'd expect it should be ok in tuned 2,0L engine.

I really don't want to say that your setup is bad, maybe you like it that way. It's just that I personally choose some low end torque even in the expense of some high end power.

My turbo is rare AMG version of gt2359v. Here's my dyno on plain diesel. This is just with 1,3bar as pressure won't stay up on the rollers. In street I use 2,0bar.

305hp, 590Nm (160hp @2500rpm)

 

[basstard]

Mike i would think that its the Nos which is giving you ability to rev to 6000rpm to some degree and has the ability to ignite most any fuel you care to inject into a motor , but moving towards having bigger diesel injector over using that amount of propane is imo a better direction

I've seen a video of a mk3 ibiza 110 tuned to 214hp [on mild map!!] revving to 6k on straight diesel,,, S2000 anyone??

 

[basstard]

That's a vnt?

Either there's something wrong with the setup or it's just so big.

I would go with gt2260v, because that's dyno proven to make +350hp on diesel. It spools nicely in 3,0L engine as a factory setup, so I'd expect it should be ok in tuned 2,0L engine.

I really don't want to say that your setup is bad, maybe you like it that way. It's just that I personally choose some low end torque even in the expense of some high end power.

My turbo is rare AMG version of gt2359v. Here's my dyno on plain diesel. This is just with 1,3bar as pressure won't stay up on the rollers. In street I use 2,0bar.

305hp, 590Nm (160hp @2500rpm)

As I already said, I would think it's about impossible [or at least very big work] to turn a vnt to normal wastegate system and vice-versa,,, all the tubings, the valves, the ecu, the maps,,, one hell of a job for a setup that is plain inferior on a diesel imho,,,

If you do 2.0 bar on the street how many ponies do you reckon it's putting out at that pressure???
Btw, I think you need to use braked rollers to let the pressure go up,,,

May I have the specs for your car please? seems a good setup,,,

 

[timbotdi]

My VT2 diesel-tuned 1.9 PD revs beyond 5500rpm...

Fascinating discussion eitherway guys - interested to see it develop.

As far as low-down power is concerned doesn't this give massive tyre, and possibly clutch slip?

I'm a little unclear on the exact figures, but surely Mike's torque figure at 2500rpm would be higher than Shadowmaker's? How can the BHP and torque have such different relationships in two, I assume, similarily tuned cars?

T

 

[basstard]

As far as low-down power is concerned doesn't this give massive tyre, and possibly clutch slip?

Those would be the less important issues,,, low down torque eats transmissions too,,,

I'm a little unclear on the exact figures, but surely Mike's torque figure at 2500rpm would be higher than Shadowmaker's? How can the BHP and torque have such different relationships in two, I assume, similarily tuned cars?

Torque and power have the same relationship no matter what the engine:

power = (torque x rpm)/constant

with constant being a number depending on which units you want to use to express power and torque.

I see your point but can't state anything cos I can't really see shadowmaker's graph,,, too blurry really,,,

 

[shadowmaker]

I'm a little unclear on the exact figures, but surely Mike's torque figure at 2500rpm would be higher than Shadowmaker's? How can the BHP and torque have such different relationships in two, I assume, similarily tuned cars?

T

Nope. I have 450Nm and 160hp. Mike seems to have about 225Nm and 80hp if understod his graph correctly.

Really busy right now. I'll try to post better graph later...

 

[basstard]

Nope. I have 450Nm and 160hp. Mike seems to have about 225Nm and 80hp if understod his graph correctly.

Really busy right now. I'll try to post better graph later...

(160lbft * 2500 rpm)/5252 = 76bhp

you are right,,,

I just don't know if these figures are at the wheels or at the engine,,,

 

[shadowmaker]

(160lbft * 2500 rpm)/5252 = 76bhp

you are right,,,

I just don't know if these figures are at the wheels or at the engine,,,

With 327hp and correction factor, say 20% on 4WD, would total 392hp. That's 200hp/litre. Maybe not. Atleast mine are from flywheel...

I've seen a video of a mk3 ibiza 110 tuned to 214hp [on mild map!!] revving to 6k on straight diesel,,, S2000 anyone??

We have here old MB 300TDs with 450-500hp using Holset HX50 etc. crappy old turbos and they keep on revving 8000rpm. Best power comes @5500-6000rpm.

May I have the specs for your car please? seems a good setup,,,

This is a 5cyl 2.5TDI (big block ) VW T4 -96 originally 102hp. Head is EVO II with some swirl left to keep the milege reasonable as I use this van daily. It has bigger valves and uses custom camshaft. Exhaust manifold is pulse-type and turbo is a AMG version of gt2359v and it seems to be easily capable for 2,0bar. Head is made for 2,5bar. Nozzles are 520race and headrotor is custom made 12mm. DP is 3" as is exhaust. Clutch is specially made for it with sintered disc and lightened SMF. Intercooler is 100x30x30cm with N-tercooler (which I haven't tested yet) and there's additional oilcooler too.

Block and transmission (5-speed manual) are original, but I'm trying to get a custom diff lock as there seems to be traction problems atleast on wet road even on 5th gear...

Only reason to have this killer engine on a van weighting 2000kg is that there's enought room for beer...

Here's picture. Ofcourse it has dual-bi-xenons, xenon foglights, Koni suspension, Recaro seat, TV + digibox...

 

[timbotdi]

Carlo,

Cheers for the explaination - much appreciated.


Shadow,

That's a brute of an engine - whereabouts are you based? Who did the tuning work?

Feel free to post up some more pics - sounds like you've done a whole load of work on her...

Cheers,

T

 

[DIFT]

What brakes have you got on there?

They look awfully small

 

[basstard]

We have here old MB 300TDs with 450-500hp using Holset HX50 etc. crappy old turbos and they keep on revving 8000rpm. Best power comes @5500-6000rpm.

Do you mean the old 3 liter td by mercedes tuned to 500hp????? are you kidding me or what?? I NEED some more info on these,,, have you got some link or something???

This is a 5cyl 2.5TDI (big block ) VW T4 -96 originally 102hp. Head is EVO II with some swirl left to keep the milege reasonable as I use this van daily. It has bigger valves and uses custom camshaft. Exhaust manifold is pulse-type and turbo is a AMG version of gt2359v and it seems to be easily capable for 2,0bar. Head is made for 2,5bar. Nozzles are 520race and headrotor is custom made 12mm. DP is 3" as is exhaust. Clutch is specially made for it with sintered disc and lightened SMF. Intercooler is 100x30x30cm with N-tercooler (which I haven't tested yet) and there's additional oilcooler too.

When you say headrotor you mean the fuel pump? In that case Is that a modded 11mm or what?

What is that N-tercooler you talking about??
BTW, guess you mean 100x30x3cm not 100x30x30,,,

Where do you connect the oil lines to the oil cooler? from the turbo or have you modded the oil filter housing?

Sorry for all these questions but this project seems VERY cool,,,

BTW, seems that the injectors for all the best tuned diesels around the world are coming from italy,,,

 

[basstard]

Carlo,

Cheers for the explaination - much appreciated.

No worries mate! That was very simple, not exactly rocket science!!
BTW, there's a much more complete explanation about power and torque in the knowledge base in the main page [yes, there's a main page besides the forums,,,]

 

[basstard]

Uh-oh!! Sweet Jesus look what I stumbled on while doin some research:
http://www.mercedes-forum.com/forum/search.php?searchid=648304&sid=56f98269d007e94abb4fa72b9e018c0e



Never thought the tuning scene was so focused on those old diesels in northern europe,,,

I just can't stand this since I really hate mercedes and now I'll need to find a vag tdi that can match those mercs,,,

 

[timbotdi]

Carlo,

What are the details on that Merc forum? You need to register to view, and my work email account blocks any 'activation' emails.

Cheers for your advice - I will check out the knowledge base - I have a reasonable understanding, but clearly need to learn more!

T

 

[basstard]

I can see those and I assure you I ain't registered to some german/finnish forums!!