Leon FR TDI blew me away

[HarryKatinnen]

"1) The driving experience was at best satisfactory as I felt like I was always changing bloody gear"

That is an interesting comment as going from a Subaru Impreza WRX to a Leon TDI Sport I found I was changing gear far less. The Seat will quite happily keep pulling where the Scooby would need a downchange to keep the boost up. On a favourite piece of twisty A road across the Cotswolds I was able to leave the Seat in 5th all the way with no loss of momentum whereas the Scoobs would have been down to 3rd at some of the trickier points.

Can I just add that looking at some of the other posts on this thread the season of peace and good will to all men...especially other seat owners appears to be well and truly over...never noticed this much bickering on Scoobynet!

 

[Moley RUFC]

Well said Harry! Less bickering. Lets face it, there all pretty quick for what they are i.e. FR tdi, etc. There not F1 cars and very few are in Type R, Subaru,etc territory and werent made to be. Just enjoy the fact if you drive a Seat Leon Mk2 then you are in a bloody good car.

And if like me when driving if you see another give them a flash or a wave, because you dont see many. Its our secret!

Now drive mother fcukers!!!!!!

 

[k4ith]

takes me back to my ukmkiv's petrol v deisel debates ahh them were the days.
i owned a petrol and converted to the dark side, my golf was mapped & modded to a reasonable 230bhp, not high but still enough for a road going car, then got the FR TDi 170 nice torque but top end there's not much else happening certainly wouldn't go evo/scooby/boxster bating thats for sure. did have a very spirited encounter with the new VW mk5 gt 170 and that just came down to bottle and skill , bottle being the main factor, so what ever car you have most here will never drive it to its full capacity, the FR Tdi is a good car and with some extra dosh you can push it into the 200's... dpf allowing, but if i had loads of dosh and wanted a fast car it would be petrol all the time.

But i recommend the FR TDi but would rather have the TFSi

 

[yell_oh]

Torque at the wheels it what gives you acceleration

not sure why everyone is so preoccupied with torque, its power that makes you accelerate so you should always keep your revs as close to peak power as possible whether its petrol or diesel

as people have said diesels are quicker than a lot of petrols mid range due to torque but this actually means they have more power e.g.

236 lb/ft at 2000rpm is around 90bhp compared to a stock 1.8T 225 that has 79bhp at around 2krpm

advantage that petrols have is that they make the power higher up the rev range so they can stay in gear longer and at a higher speed which means they also have more power at the wheels

It is TORQUE, not POWER that provides acceleration. Power is merely TORQUE x RPM.

However, it's TORQUE at the wheels that determines your acceleration. Because Diesels can't rev (since timing cannot be controlled), then the gearing has to be taller to reach a given speed, so while Diesels do have more torque than petrols, the torque at the wheels is actually less due to gearing. The "diesel torque giving better performance on the move etc." is a myth perpetuated by poorly educated journalists who don't actually understand the mechanics and mathematics involved.

You may well keep up with CTRs etc. in your TDI on the road, but that's only because they're not being driven to their full potential, or are being driven SAFELY (i.e. not flat out on the public road!). A CTR or ST will see off 0-100mph in 16 seconds, FR TFSI maybe 18 seconds. What will a TDI 170 do it in?? well into the 20s.

Many drivers are also scared to rev. I change up in my petrol at over 6000rpm, I know a lot of people who do it at 3500rpm therefore losing the petrols advantage of shorter gearing.

 

[UncleFester]

Having driven a vtec engined honda for a couple of years and suffered the lousy fuel consumption / constant need for changing gears to keep the revs up .... i would much rather 'suffer' with the Tdi My honda was incapable of holding the legal speed limit up sections of the M1 where the Tdi is quite happy to sit in 6th and return twice the MPG

 

[Fl@pper]

doesnt matter what it is/was really if in a comparable acceleration scenario (start the same time) unless you have a large power/torque (i mean LARGE) then you wont shake him/lose him easily over a blast like that

ive seen 2 cars both on a 1/4 mile starting at the same time one has 2200bhp on turbo's the other is approx 1400bhp with the gas on - after crossing the line at over 170/180 mph (8.5 secs) the gap is approx 10ft and thats with a power gap of 800bhp

to do the same distance in half the time takes a car thats half the weight and between 6000-8000 bhp so 20ish bhp wont make that much difference really

as stated above TORQUE is the main requirement - bring any 1000/1200 bhp skyline and i'll show you an 800bhp hot rod that'll blow it into the weeds even with 2wd basically due to a high and FLAT torque curve

day to day driving as much as a i dislike diesel (sorry) but they really are the most useful

and if you are cruising close to 100mph NEVER underestimate an old straight 6 Carlton or BMW

 

[LEONFRTDI2K6]

To be honest it probably was an New FR TDI, I have one and between 1800-3500 it will out race a TFSI, what you have to remember is although you have 190+bhp it means nothing on a diesel in reality. The FR TDI 170 revs up to 4200rpm and gives 168bhp but are designed to give more torque at the higher end of the scale, whether as the 1.9 PD TDI is all pure low down grunt but it runs out after 3000 revs, the TDI 170 keeps it torque beyond 3600 and with the slightly higher cubic capacity handles the 350NM of torque evenly.. What you will find is you were merely out torqued by a TDI FR 170...trust from an owner who as outraced CUPRA R's with no trouble....

REMEMBER DERV DRIVERS DON'T RACE YOUR DIESEL TO 4000 REVS TO MAKE IT GO FAST IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE UNLESS ITS 250bhp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

USE ITS TORQUE!!!! SLICK GEARCHANGES AND YOUR A ROCKET!!!

 

[Jace]

takes me back to my ukmkiv's petrol v deisel debates ahh them were the days.

oh yes, a good laugh

 

[OLDOILER]

T
REMEMBER DERV DRIVERS DON'T RACE YOUR DIESEL TO 4000 REVS TO MAKE IT GO FAST IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE UNLESS ITS 250bhp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

USE ITS TORQUE!!!! SLICK GEARCHANGES AND YOUR A ROCKET!!!

VERY VERY TRUE, there's a totally different driving method - the 170 I find I have to drive differently to the chipped 1.9 PD I had too [ think its cos of the gearing on the 170 is very high in comparison].

 

[wurzel]

Another Diesel vs Petrol thread....

But i recommend the FR TDi but would rather have the TFSi

Keith, I tried both back to back, my mind one was made up after one quick blast in the TFSI.

I went from a FR TDI 150 to an FR TFSI, the extra fuel consumption was my main concern but the "excitement factor" is far greater in the TFSI than the TDI. Ok so I may have to change down to outpace the opposition etc but its what gear boxes are for, after 2500 miles the combined fuel consumption is at worst 15mpg less than the TDI 150, but the grin on my face everytime the needle whizzes more than makes up for it.

Diesel vs Petrol... "Horses for courses" comes to mind.

Anyway back to the original thread... whether it was TDI or TFSI MK2's rock (not that Mk1s don't)!

Oopps am I triggering another mk1 vs mk2?!!

 

[Ben CTR]

It is TORQUE, not POWER that provides acceleration. Power is merely TORQUE x RPM.

However, it's TORQUE at the wheels that determines your acceleration. Because Diesels can't rev (since timing cannot be controlled), then the gearing has to be taller to reach a given speed, so while Diesels do have more torque than petrols, the torque at the wheels is actually less due to gearing. The "diesel torque giving better performance on the move etc." is a myth perpetuated by poorly educated journalists who don't actually understand the mechanics and mathematics involved.

You may well keep up with CTRs etc. in your TDI on the road, but that's only because they're not being driven to their full potential, or are being driven SAFELY (i.e. not flat out on the public road!). A CTR or ST will see off 0-100mph in 16 seconds, FR TFSI maybe 18 seconds. What will a TDI 170 do it in?? well into the 20s.

Many drivers are also scared to rev. I change up in my petrol at over 6000rpm, I know a lot of people who do it at 3500rpm therefore losing the petrols advantage of shorter gearing.

About as bang on as you'll get... I'd say..

 

[Ben CTR]

What you will find is you were merely out torqued by a TDI FR 170...trust from an owner who as outraced CUPRA R's with no trouble....

Mate, you do TORQUE some $hit sometimes.. (Even though you can talk sense too)
Yeah, your FR TDI will catch petrols out very easily, I will agree on that.. But if you had a side by side acceleration test with a Cupra R/CTR (both drivers with equal ability) you'll end up losing, by fair amount too..
It's like matey said, both the CTR and Cupra R are a good 6 secs quicker 0-100 than yours (assuming it's standard) and the gap will only get bigger as the speed progresses.. I would put my car on it...
Just get to Santa Pod this year mate, if you get anthing better than 16's i'll be impressed.. I predict 16.1 @ 87mph..
I'll knock mine back to satndard and give you a blast if you want? Seeing as you easily outrace a Cupra R.. Or will I need my remap turned on to keep pace?
Yours,
The Idiot who knows nothing.. (according to you)

Yes the Leon FR TDI is slightly heavier but it has 350NM of torque to pull it you idiot.........you obviously know about your cars don't you

 

[warren_cox]

I was going to offer to bring the S3 (when remapped) to the pod too for a comparison, but given I'd only end up embarrased so I'll stay at home and make excuses about there being an issue with heat soak or a dodgy MAF like I usually do with the LCR.

 

[Ben CTR]

Bring it down mate, i'd like to see how it fairs, especially remapped..
Just watch out for that Slaying TDi mate and what ever you do don't run against it...

 

[warren_cox]

Just watch out for that Slaying TDi mate and what ever you do don't run against it...

I wouldn't dare

 

[wurzel]

PMSL

 

[warren_cox]

PMSL

well TBH according to the stage 1 figures quoted for the S3 in this 306bhp and 410Nm of torque I'd have no chance (transmission loss you see).

 

[wurzel]

don't forget power loss due to 95 ron fuel not 98 ron

 

[AndyVTR]

A CTR or ST will see off 0-100mph in 16 seconds, FR TFSI maybe 18 seconds. What will a TDI 170 do it in?? well into the 20s.

1.8T Revo Golf vs Mine vs Mine standard.
http://www.andyhickling.plus.com/Comparison.wmv

 

[yell_oh]

1.8T Revo Golf vs Mine vs Mine standard.
http://www.andyhickling.plus.com/Comparison.wmv

Don't forget you're probably doing about 85-90 when the speedo says 100 and that last 10mph will take a few seconds... Still impressive though. Would probably keep up with a TFSI FR in most real-world conditions, although there'd be a mighty cloud of smoke and the petrol driver would be having more fun and wouldn't be giving kids asthma and cancer from all that poisonous soot...