Hybrid K04 Turbo Discussion

[Feel]

This is a K04-023 style turbo.

You'd need a TIP, exhaust manifold and at least a new DP, possibly cat and cat back, I think different oil and water lines, different charge piping, possibly need larger injectors.

GT2X seems to be a better option for K04-023 like power on a K03S car, or a K03/K04-001 hybrid like the one Star fitted one to RobDon's car, or the JBS04, or AM04

You don't mention the GTRS Eliminator at all?

Basically the turbo has a larger compressor wheel and machined housing, different back plate and clipped and clearanced turbine wheel.

 

[ibizacupra]

Yes bill but its get what you pay for. I can pretty much say when my k04 manifold comes off it will have cracks in it left/right and centre. Is it affecting the performance of my car? I dont think it is!

The ATP mani will obviously flow better than the stock mani but if it does crack is it going to cause me dramas and then affect the performance of the car? Probably not?

Then the next step up is the Jabba IHI manifold if indeed it can be catered to fit the K04 but again ive heard of the IHI manifold cracking

Thats raised the pricing from 300 to 550.

Then the next step up is your manifold along with JBS's manifold and then the pricing goes through the roof.

The whole point in us going hybrid K04 is to save money, the manifold is not a neccessity but we probably will upgrade. There is no point in us trying to save money on the turbo front if we are going to blow the same again on the manifold. Whats the point? Just go full hog IHI if your going to do that

Reading through your posts the IHI on safe boost levels is good for 320-330bhp. This k04 hybrid wont be far off of that (Prob about 315ish?)
So the pricing is 1/3 of that for IHI.

The sensible option in my opinion is this K04, the less money spent, the better It means you dont lose as much when you come to selling. I would rather lose £1500 on this K04 than £4500 on IHI.

IHI mani does crack too. Got a couple myself
ATP cracks and leaks is what I have heard, ignoring the fitment issues they have as well. If it was'nt a problem, people would'nt moan about it.

Yes its a case of you get what you pay for. You really do

I would'nt compare my equal length manifold, as its not designed for the lower end power output & certainly not the same type of animal.

You cannot rationalise amount ££ on modding vs recovery of costs when you sell. You loose always. Comparing K04 to IHI is apples and pears as well.
you need to drive one to appreciate the headline power figures dont equate to the actual performance difference between them. Night & Day.

 

[Mitchy]

This is a K04-023 style turbo.

You'd need a TIP, exhaust manifold and at least a new DP, possibly cat and cat back, I think different oil and water lines, different charge piping, possibly need larger injectors.

GT2X seems to be a better option for K04-023 like power on a K03S car, or a K03/K04-001 hybrid like the one Star fitted one to RobDon's car, or the JBS04, or AM04

You don't mention the GTRS Eliminator at all?

Basically the turbo has a larger compressor wheel and machined housing, different back plate and clipped and clearanced turbine wheel.

DJ Horace.....You can have most of that from me if you want to upgrade to k04 turbo Turbo/Tip/manifold/downpipe/cat/injectors are all coming off my car soon

If not then ill more than likely flog the lot on ebay

 

[m0rk]

Just wondering if this idea might be better vfm for you...

GTRS eliminator, ATP manifold (all for 'k03' type applications) LC downpipe (giving a proper straight exhaust route) mating to your rear system

I think that @ 4bar the 380cc's run a better mist than 440's @ 3bar (so i'm told) and the maf won't over read

might be worth an investigation though

Mark

 

[Saul]

yer ^ tt/lcr injectors for gtrs eliminator

 

[Feel]

With all the options available for K03 cars compared to K04 cars, I've often wondered the same. People quote more out of AM04's and JBS04's than stock K04-23s...

On a separate note, there's a guy with a Star fitted GTRS Eliminator on an S3. He said that Star had an ATP manifold on the shelf even though the owner felt the stock K04 manifold was good for 350. He's made 330bhp(223whp)/306lbsft on Star's rollers.

Edit: The S3 runs the STOCK manifold, not the ATP one.

He also said he's got a Apexi AVC-R fitted to control the boost (a few people going for these now...), and started off with 550's but was overfuelling, so was going to go with 475's

How big are LCT/TT injectors?

 

[Mitchy]

LCR injectors are 380cc

Are the figures above correct feel? 223whp and 330hp @ fly?

I know its 4wd but thats some amount of loss You sure that's right buddy

Jabba use 440cc @ 3 bar or it is possible to use the 380cc @ 4 bar

 

[Feel]

Wrong? ME!?! How dare you

Unless I'm reading it wrong that is...

Edit: At least it spools...

 

[YerMother]

120BHP Losses @ 6,500! What a waste, will have to pump the tyres up more!!

 

[YerMother]

The LCR 380cc run at 437cc @ 4Bar I believe, and have a better spray pattern than the 440s that suits the 1.8T better! Apparently!

So the TT/LCR injectors should be good for 350 BHP @ 4 Bar

 

[wild willy]

Yer Mum, how has fuel economy faired with the four bar reg and the bad ass maff housing.
Also have you tried adjusting the boost down a bit with V tune to avoid the big spike.

 

[m0rk]

The good thing with 380cc injectors is they fit better into the manifold, I'm lead to beleive 440's a) don't b) need some form of spacer

If Jim's using 550's they'll need to run a real low pressure, but it's what ATP's Mika tuned idea suggests

Also - as bill says - IHI, so smooth compared to k04 based unit. Very much enjoyed wilko's

 

[YerMother]

Yer Mum, how has fuel economy faired with the four bar reg and the bad ass maff housing.
Also have you tried adjusting the boost down a bit with V tune to avoid the big spike.

Fuel economy is the same as its still fuelling correctly! (What the ECU is requesting - Air/fuel is correct)

You can't avoid the boost spiking with v-tune, as you can only reduce/increase the boost across the whole rev range (upto the maximum of 1.55 Bar, as the MAP cannot see beyond that hence the ECU doesn't request more than that), which is not what you want! Boost controller is the only way.

 

[Mitchy]

Is there any reason for that boost spike mate? Is it down to your mapping or is it likely to be the same with mine with the jabba map?

What kind of boost are you sustaining at 6000-6500rpm? You have that high flow APR downpipe dont you?

Are going to map it properly or remain on v-tune @ 105% boost?

 

[YerMother]

Around 1.3BAR at redline at the mo

Boost spike is due to the nature of the k04! Still a fairly small compressor so spools up very fast! It also due to the N75 that controls it!

Also because the map is running at the limit of the MAP sensor the ECU can't see how the boost is over requested! So the ECU is slow at opening the wastegate to bring the boost down!

Think i'm just going to continue to use standard map for the time being

 

[Mitchy]

Would a 3bar map sort that out and allow you to run more boost? Say 1.6-1.65 bar? If turbo can do it, why not?

Dont suppose you know how much a 3bar map sensor costs?

 

[YerMother]

It would sort out the problem but then you would have to have a remap to suit, calibrated to the new sensor! Plus I'm not sure if it's the sensor itself that cannot read the higher pressure or the ECU just cannot see it! Either way the map needs to be calibrated to use it!

 

[J@mes]

well in the Jabba IHI price list it does not mention changing the 1.55 bar map sensor! and i assume the IHI turbo runs slightly more than 1.55 boost?!

 

[Feel]

You can't just chuck a 3bar sensor in there though - the ECU would be scaled for a 2.5 bar one, so where the 2.5 bar one outputs, say, 3.2volts the 3 bar one might output 2.8volts, which the ECU sees as less boost than it is actually making (or more, whatever it'd be wrong).

As I understand it, when the boost goes over the scale of the MAP the ECU drops onto the MAF reading to work out full throttle fuelling (which is one reason why these cars are so sensitive to bad MAFs). So if your MAP is different, and your MAF tube is different (pointed directly at Sie ), god only knows what it'll do to the fuelling.

Maybe if you fiddled with it long enough though. Or just by a AVC-R (£250). Or a custom map.

Oh, and I think they're about £85

 

[Feel]

well in the Jabba IHI price list it does not mention changing the 1.55 bar map sensor! and i assume the IHI turbo runs slightly more than 1.55 boost?!

I think they're only just started doing them. I know Gary and Jools have not long since had them fitted...