Change of heart - going to the darkside...

[cobraman2007]

Hi all.

You may all by now have grasped I have been looking for an LCR as a replacement for my outgoing MX5 mainly due to the fact that I need more than two seats and a real boot. However, I have had a change of mind and will now be looking for a CTR instead.

The LCR was my first choice because of the VAG background plus the benefit of five doors. However, I looked at a CTR yesterday and sat in one and I have to say the back seats are much bigger plus the doors are so big that it doesn't matter that it is a 3-door as getting in the back is a doddle with the front seat pushed forward. I have yet to drive the CTR but I am certain that it will have the same power output as a LCR although I will have to stress the engine a little more to get to that powerband.

Okay - why have I decided to go for the CTR over the LCR. The main reason is the fact that there seems to be more that goes wrong with the LCR than the CTR. I mean I have read about failing coilpacks/maf sensors/water pumps/leaking door seals/pulling to the left etc etc. It seems the only thing that goes wrong with the CTR are window creaking and flaking of the interior plastic which I can live with. Plus brakes/pads/tyres are also cheaper and last longer in the CTR than the LCR. Fuel economy seems to be about the same in both cars.

The final straw had to be when RobM posted his post "It never rains". It seems a £1000 bill in a big lump is not something I could handle financially.

If the LCR eradicated these problems, I would go for it because of the 5-doors, far superior interior, understated exterior looks and the menancing front face. Oh, and the turbo and the fact that you can add power for next to nothing and it is as simple as updating the ECU with a laptop.

I would just like to say thanks to everyone who has helped me on this forum with my endless questions and will continue visiting.

Cheers - Cobraman2007

 

[RobM]

Don't base your decision on us moaning gits!

Remember this is a forum, a place where people come when they need help or have a problem. In fact, many people sign up just for that reason alone as they need quick help.

Every car has problems, but the ones you have listed are not common, they are probably the only problems you'll ever have with the car. And if you get more than one of those you can consider yourself unlucky. I've had my MAF go... it was replaced under warranty and has been perfect since. I'm sure I'll have a coilpack go too at some point, but that's no big deal either and easily fixed without too much expense.

With regards to my post... the CTR will be no different. If that needed new brakes, four new tyres and a major service I guarantee you'll end up spending a similar amount of money, if not more. That post is nothing to do with the quality or reliability of my car, it's just consumable items that all need replacing at once. If the tyres lasted another 6 months it wouldn't be an issue. It's just unlucky that it's all happened together.

Drive the CTR and then drive the LCR on the same day and make up your mind from that. If you then think the CTR is the better car for you, fair play to you. But don't make your decision based upon problems you might never experience. If we all did that, we would never leave the house

 

[cobraman2007]

Cheers RobM - that's reassured me again.

I have spent some time on the CTR forum and it seems the cars are slightly cheaper to run as per fuel economy. Tyres/brakes do seem to last a little longer and are 17" instead of 18" that come on the LCR. That being said though, oil needs to be changed every 4 weeks/600 miles to keep the iVTEC in top notch order.

It also seems that the car needs to enter the iVTEC powerband to make progress as it comes with 146lb torque which means it needs revving to make real progress. The LCR comes with a turbo which gives a kick in the back which is something that doesn't happen with the CTR. Plus the LCR is meant to be less harsh, more comfortable and better on the motorway and easier to overtake vehicles due to its impressive torque figure. I have to say though the failing coilpacks and MAF's scares me a lot as I have been used to troublefree driving from my MX5 for 4 years. I have been spoilt in that respect as I only service it once a year and it runs and runs and runs with nothing ever having gone wrong mechanically.

I am really stuck in the middle of these two cars now. Both cars have pros and cons and I am edging back to the LCR mainly due to the power delivery and 5-doors.

I haven't actually driven the CTR yet so I should really stop typing and let you all know how I got on tomorrow. It seems the CTR has a great reputation but isn't anything on the LCR (on reading reports of power delivery at least).

Cheers - Cobraman2007

 

[NeilW]

Hi Mate, we used to have both. I had the LCR and the missus had the CTR (Nighthawk special edition with recaros).

The interior of the CTR was much nicer, fantastic seats, excellent gear change etc. However she had to pay an extra £1000 for air-con (not standard on the CTR) whearas I had climate control in the LCR.

Performance wise there was never much in it, although you really really really had to drive the CTR hard. I mean revving the nuts off it, using every last rpm of vtec. In comparison the LCR wafted along on huge waves of torque.

The CTR was noisy and uncomfortable to drive on long journeys, and became especially tiresome on motorways. The LCR was comfortable on motorways and could also be driven at maximum attack when the mood took.

The brakes on the LCR were infinitely better, although the handling of the CTR was slightly better.

I don't agree with the 3 door thing. Trust me, after a period of friends / kids climbing in and out of the back of the CTR it will get on your t*ts. The doors are so long that often, in car parks, you can't open the doors wide enough to get out of the back. 5 door cars might not look as sporty but are miles more practical.

Although they're often compared because of the similar price points and power, there really is a world of difference between the two. Ideally you'd have both. The CTR for "boy racing" and the LCR for fast comfortable driving and cruising.

Remember it's much cheaper to add more power to the LCR too.

And finally the CTR looks like a bread van. The LCR looks mean as fook!

 

[InfernalBadger]

That being said though, oil needs to be changed every 4 weeks/600 miles to keep the iVTEC in top notch order.

only way that would be true is if you ran 5w and it was track raced every day

 

[cobraman2007]

Thanks for that - I was looking for a honest CTR/LCR comparison from someone who has owned both.

To be honest, I always thought the two cars were identical in virtually all aspects but having read about the completely two power deliveries, the cars seems miles apart.

That being said though, does the CTR make any sort of progress under the iVTEC range? I mean is it going to drive like my dad's 1.6 Civic until I hit the magic iVTEC or is it much faster than that?

I will test the two cars but it seems I will edge back to the LCR eventually. I am slowly leaving the darkside and entering the light again.

Cheers - Cobraman2007

 

[NeilW]

Thanks for that - I was looking for a honest CTR/LCR comparison from someone who has owned both.

To be honest, I always thought the two cars were identical in virtually all aspects but having read about the completely two power deliveries, the cars seems miles apart.

That being said though, does the CTR make any sort of progress under the iVTEC range? I mean is it going to drive like my dad's 1.6 Civic until I hit the magic iVTEC or is it much faster than that?

I will test the two cars but it seems I will edge back to the LCR eventually. I am slowly leaving the darkside and entering the light again.

Cheers - Cobraman2007

Nah. It's still very fast under the VTEC. But very very fast when it hits it! The main problem with the CTR is it's impossible to drive slow.

 

[InfernalBadger]

The i-VTECs are a lot better than the older VTEC honda's. They actually have some power under 5.5k rpm, but there is still a big kick when it hits though

 

[karlosR]

if i was you i'd take both for test drives and see what you think in varying driving conditions such as cruising on motorways, town driving and B road thrashing. i've been a passenger in a CTR and was impressed with the grip and just how fast it was but it did need its neck wringing to make progress. my LCR seems effortless in comparison (sp?) but if you fancy dropping it a few gears and booting it then it then it'll put a big smile on your face. in the year i've had my car i've replaced a MAF and the front discs and pads although i could've left the discs longer if i'd wanted to. apart from that and money spent on mods it is just been regular servicing costs.

 

[Big_daddy]

CTR do guzzle when you foot it! with LCR you poke here and there and the fuels is the almost the same.
LCR you can play more around with it and can boost it up! They look much better than CTR! The interior is much more detailed!and the ride is way smother than CTR!

 

[Chris 16v]

I have always thought this..........a forum is the WORST place to go when looking to buy a new car.

A car forum is full of enthusiasts for sure and yes they can tell you how amazing a car is, however, about 50% of the posts will be moaning about something - quite simply, this is the only place you will get hundreds of owners of one car. You will not find this coverage anywhere else!

If you go on a ctr forum for long enough you will see numerous posts about harsh rides, fuel consumption, crashy rides and so so residual values.

Ive had a series of vtec accords and older civic, yes they are great engines but imo none of the character of the 1.8t.

They are great cars, i wont deny that, it depends on your preference and driving style.

 

[DIB]

This is an interesting topic for me as I`m changing my CTR for a Leon Cupra R very soon.

I`d done a fair bit of modding to the CTR(got it to around 233 N/A).and i think getting into a stock one you wouldn`t be blown away with its performance.i spent £800 on a Hondata ECU and that made a huge difference totally changes the CTR.in standard trim you do really have to push and rev the CTR to make it go!.

Running costs aren`t too bad with a CTR,and service intervals are 12months or 12,000miles.people do change the oil every 6000 but don`t make a difference to the Vtec.if oil level is low then the Vtec won`t work.

would like to hear more owners opions of whose own both for a good view so i know what to expect for the change to LCR

Dave.

 

[super cupra R]

Defo test drive the two cars, but if this helps, ive had my LCR for just over a year now and all that has gone wrong were the slow speed fans that SEAT replaced under warranty, one service was quite cheap as i supplied my own oil and the brake pads and discs are due a change but they are ok till later on in the year. apart from that tyres, which unfortunatly will wear no matter how you drive, good luck with whatever you finally go with.

 

[speedsix]

Don't make your decisions based on a standard LCR because you will get it chipped.

20VT on stock code is pretty dull imo, wait until you have a ride in a remapped one!

 

[m.r.davies]

I was in your shoes mate,
Went for the LCR in the end as I always have the option to remap and take it to 265-275 bhp

the think that swung it for me was the leon was nice and comfortable

the CTR was like riding a horse with a dildo stuck up my ass..... soooo bumpy it gave me a head ache, also it was a bit noisey on the motorway and felt like you were in a tin can.
CTR may look nicer inside but the quality is noticable compared to LCR

your choice though mate, depends what you want out of it
good luck

 

[Al_G]

Noooooooooooooooooo don't do it fella!

CTRs are great cars but I wouldn't swap my LCR for one!

A couple of mates have got CTRs and they all admit that the LCR is a completely different animal, smooth, refined and extremely fast if used in the correct way!

I can't see LCRs being more expensive to run than CTRs. Both are going to drink fuel if ragged however I regularly see 34MPG if I keep to the speed limits!

I really think you should buy an LCR as I know for a fact you won't regret it!

This man knows....

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=123667

 

[boolay]

Seeing as your current drive is an MX5, you obviously enjoy feeling the road, hearing the engine, and don't mind a bumpy ride.
If only reason for wanting a change is the need for more space, I would definately get a CTR. I owned one for nearly 2 years before my cupra, and enjoyed every minute of it.
The 1.8T lump is a great engine and very tunable, but stock for stock, it wont make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when you take it to the limit, snapping into the next gear at 8200rpm is an experience to behold! (CTR's are deceptively large inside as well)
Don't get me wrong, if you bought a LCR, I have no doubt you would love it, I just feel a CTR would be more suited.

Enjoy whatever you go for

 

[cobraman2007]

Thanks for all the comments guys - it seems the LCR and CTR are completely different in what they give you - driving wise at least.

I think the last poster has hit the nail on the head for me. I am so used to the engine note of the MX5 and I do like to hear the road underneath me and I don't mind the odd bump and harsh ride - it just adds to the experience of driving for me.

Having driven the LCR and been a passenger in a CTR, the LCR was simply not loud enough for me - even when engaging the turbo whereas the CTR, even though I didn't enter the VTEC zone, was still quite loud and I found the engine note was quite noticeable inside of the cabin. Comfort wise the LCR wins hands down. The ride was as smooth as silk compared to my current MX5 which jumps all over the place. The CTR wasn't as harsh as I thought it would have been but again, this is due to what I am used to with the MX5. My MX5 is also not soundproofed and so therefore I am used to high noise on motorway journeys - especially when I have the roof off.

Powerwise, the CTR felt a lot slower than the LCR low down. The turbo on the LCR gives you a real kick very early on although the CTR needs to be revved to get the kick (this is just what I have been told as I haven't VTEC'd the CTR yet). However, I am used to high-revving as I normally take the MX5 above 6000revs and I love the adrenalin rush when I am on an open road. I also found that the CTR acts like a normal car in low revs which I enjoyed and I can imagine not using the VTEC much at all in every day driving which will save me on the fuel bill.

Spacewise, the CTR is absolutely huge in the back - even with the big Recaros in the front. Legspace outdoes the LCR a lot. However, two doors instead of four is something I will need to consider as I would of liked access to the rear without interrupting the driver/front passenger seats. The boots are about the same size and the rear seats fold down so nothing to compare there then.

Powerwise, both cars as standard are fast. I am used to 0-60 in my MX5 in around 10 seconds and I feel that is quite fast so any car that hits 0-60 under 7 seconds simply terrifies me. I wouldn't chip either car although the appeal of BEING ABLE to chip the LCR so easily does appeal. Having said that, 200bhp through the front wheels is enough for me.

So overall, the CTR is winning for me. The CTR seems to be a racer whereas the LCR seems to be more of a cruiser. I just felt the CTR offers more in driving appeal as it is louder, harsher and you have to drive it hard to get it to move. Which is what I am used to with my MX5 - which, by the way, I absolute LOVE. I just need the extra space really and the power is something I can enjoy when I get used to driving the car.

Cheers - Cobraman2007

 

[LiCkWiD]

I do love the CTR.. but I don't think it looks the part :<

Compared to the looks of previous Type-R's.. the CTR looks a tad tame. Such a shame.

Would still love one though..

 

[cobraman2007]

Lookswise - I didn't like the look of the CTR but having seen it in real life and not pictures for a while, it is rather menacing (especially in black or cosmic silver form). Although, I can agree when people say it looks like an MPV and not a hatchback. But the same can be said of the new LC.

Having said that though, the LCR looks much nicer in my opinion and the back end slab-look of the LCR is simply beautiful to me. It just raises the higher profile of the car and it looks a lot more stubby.

The LCR seems a far more compact looking car but surprisingly, the CTR is shorter length/width/height wise to the LCR. It also weighs slightly less. Now that was surprising to learn.

Cheers - Cobraman2007