upgrades

[herman69]

I'm looking at upgrading my 1.9tdi FR with celtic tuning, Basically i'll get 230bhp and 260lb/ft of torque but them working on the turbo, remapping the car and sticking a new exhaust and air filter on.
Is this gonna be a good idea or does anyone know of any other company, Bearing in mind i've been quoted £2000 for the lot inc. fitting

Cheers

 

[timbotdi]

What is your base car? Are they not planning on changing the injectors also?

Check out Allard's website - they're not cheap, but they have a fully conclusive price list, so you can check like-for-like:

http://www.allardmotorcompany.com/pages/products/products-cat6.asp?cat=6

I have used Allards and despite some major issues since having the work done, have been really happy with the final outcome. I'd be suprised if the torque figure you've been quoted is correct - more likely to be around 350lb/ft with 230BHP.

T

 

[devonutopia]

Yup - Allards know their stuff as they race and develop the TDI bits in a professional racing cup of some sort. They won't be as cheap as Celtic. but Alan and Lloyd at Allarcs both know their diesels better than anyone else I reckon.

 

[cheb]

A mate is getting his car chipped by Celtic, gave a bit of discount too if he did a write up for there site. after searching round they claimed they could get teh most out of his 1.7cdti corsa. they come out to your house too, mobile tuning.

 

[acidstrato]

when u say working on the turbo, what do u mean?
does £2k include a new turbo? because i doubt the standard turbo is good for 230bhp, not only that but with out a front mounted intercooler its gonna be heatsoaking and smoking like a bitch

and if it doesnt then not only is 230bhp a big exaggeration, but theyre also skanking you

 

[devonmikeyboy]

They claim to get 210bhp from a PD160 Cupra but how long it would last before the turbo goes bang which could possibly take your engine with it is anyones guess/gamble.

 

[slick]

Well from the sounds of it i think your not being told all the implications of that work, firstly, the Turbo will be replaced with a hybrid, as the injectors have been told to work to about 230bhp, they maybe leaving them in, the exhaust would have to be a free flowing one and the remap would have to be a completey custom map. So basically i think you could get it into around £2000 for the lot, but what they dont tell you is that your clutch will need to be replaced as that power thou the OEM clutch will just fail, that without thinking about the flywheel which will need to be replaced with a single, otherwise your have a lovley knocking as the torque plays rag doll with your dual mass.

So once you get that work done, then your need another £1500 odd just to be able to drive it.

But that again is the tip of the iceberg, you got to think of brakes if a FR Leon they come with only 288mm, need to upgrade those to at least 312mm or better, again more expense...
So basically, you will find you open a whole can of worms doing that work straight off without gettin the base work done on the car....
Just look at all the others Devonmikeyboy, Utopia and others, what money you need to spend and knowledge into the mechanics of the car before you up the power to levels like 230bhp...

(P.S. this info is mainly based around a Leon FR 150 PD, but some of that information will include the 160PD's on the ibiza.)

 

[timbotdi]

Well from the sounds of it i think your not being told all the implications of that work, firstly, the Turbo will be replaced with a hybrid, as the injectors have been told to work to about 230bhp, they maybe leaving them in, the exhaust would have to be a free flowing one and the remap would have to be a completey custom map. So basically i think you could get it into around £2000 for the lot, but what they dont tell you is that your clutch will need to be replaced as that power thou the OEM clutch will just fail, that without thinking about the flywheel which will need to be replaced with a single, otherwise your have a lovley knocking as the torque plays rag doll with your dual mass.

So once you get that work done, then your need another £1500 odd just to be able to drive it.

But that again is the tip of the iceberg, you got to think of brakes if a FR Leon they come with only 288mm, need to upgrade those to at least 312mm or better, again more expense...
So basically, you will find you open a whole can of worms doing that work straight off without gettin the base work done on the car....
Just look at all the others Devonmikeyboy, Utopia and others, what money you need to spend and knowledge into the mechanics of the car before you up the power to levels like 230bhp...

(P.S. this info is mainly based around a Leon FR 150 PD, but some of that information will include the 160PD's on the ibiza.)

All very sensible advice. Brakes, and also handling are very important. Decent suspension and uprated Anti-Roll Bars make a massive difference, and enable you to put more power down.

'Slick' - interested to know what you make of your ATB Diff... How much difference does it make? I assume you have more traction / grip / acceleration on tight cornering, but does it make any difference to straight line traction?

Cheers,

T

 

[slick]

All very sensible advice. Brakes, and also handling are very important. Decent suspension and uprated Anti-Roll Bars make a massive difference, and enable you to put more power down.

'Slick' - interested to know what you make of your ATB Diff... How much difference does it make? I assume you have more traction / grip / acceleration on tight cornering, but does it make any difference to straight line traction?

Cheers,

T

Yep as Timbotdi says, everything needs to be uprated to handle and utlise the newly aquired power... not saying that its compulsary but the idea to have all that power and not being able to put it down on the tarmac is well a waste of money....

ATB diff.... hmmm.... i could i describe it.......

Its possibly THE BEST mechancial modifaction i have done on the car so far... yes it was on the pricey side... but it makes ONE HELL OF A DIFFERENCE!!
Basically with the suspension and the struts and ARB the car handled very well controlled in and out of the corner always composed, but in the corners i used to lose grip when the torque grabbed the tyres away from me.. so understeer would occur....
So on went the ATB and i went round the same round abouts at the same speed and no tyre squel or understeer... so i put more power on, and more, and more, till i was beary holding on to the steering wheel and feeling rather sick..... not a slight piece of understeer, NO ESP light flash... and tyre squel only such when i really put the foot to the floor... it even steps out the back before the front....

Nowadays i can throw it into a corner and floor thou it and out of it...and NEVER lose traction or any sign of torque steer (Which was a massive problem for me before)

As for straight line traction yes, 0-60 starts are greatly improved as no torque steer and no wheel spin as soon as the ATB feels it gettin lose to spin, it powers up the other wheel....

Best piece of kit for the Leon i think...

Word of warning for those looking to get it, its wonderfull piece of kit, but get used to it first, IT WILL STEER YOU HARDER INTO CORNERS...you have to sometimes fight against it to stop you turning in to hard and hitting kerbs..but once mastered its great, handles round corners with scoobies and Evo alike....proven many in essex that like to play cat and mouse on roundabouts...

 

[timbotdi]

Cheers for the advice mate - I've been lookin for someone to give me that level of detail for ages!

So... whereabouts did you get it from? How much did it cost / and fitting?

T

 

[slick]

No problem mate, i was the same when i looked into it, no one had fitted on to a TDi really... all on LCR's and most LSD's and not Torque biased ones...


I got it from JBS i think it was £1500 for the whole thing, cant remember excately as i got the labour cut down as the car was in pieces anyway with the new clutch going in, so they did me a sort of deal... well worth the money thou... Transformed the car...handles like a dream, well did.... until a drunk driver hit it two weeks ago, dont know if it will anymore.. but hopefully it will still be the same old fun on roundabouts.....
If you was anywhere near essex i would show you what it can do... i love doing that...
Take one roundabout add a touch of ATB and a bucket load of torque = the passenger rather gobsmacked that we havent ended up sideways!


EDIT:
You know what its like... rememeber Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear driving that P2 prodrive car and he was sick as it didnt lose grip.. thats what it does, ok not to that high level of speeds, but honestly, in a corner it really does chase Evos and Scoobies round roundabouts...i just ride the torque peak on the ATb does the rest... Also helps i have 8.5 wide tyres too...

 

[timbotdi]

Does sound like a fantastic mod...

I've spent nearly 7 grand on the car since my old turbo blew at the beginning of September. Think I may give the wallet a rest, get used to the current power and traction setup, then treat myself to a little ATB action in the New Year!

Cheers for the advice, and suitable inspiration to actually update my signature! ;o)

T

 

[slick]

No problem mate... yeah i know that feeling, only looked at the amount i've spent on the car, its just over 10k now and in the new year its on its way to Allards for all out war... going to hit LCR power... wanna see 265-270 on new VT hybrid and injectors....

Looking at about another 3k for it all but hey what a sleeper on the motorway... torque figures suggest at least 400lbs of torque... so another new clutch again... lol and single mass fly, and custom manifold and maybe new intercooler...
but as i said, the base car is there to handle the power... just a point of give the Leon all of it....

After that, hey maybe i should look into finding a old R32 for the 4 wheel drive system to really use that 260-270bhp....

 

[timbotdi]

No problem mate... yeah i know that feeling, only looked at the amount i've spent on the car, its just over 10k now and in the new year its on its way to Allards for all out war... going to hit LCR power... wanna see 265-270 on new VT hybrid and injectors....

Looking at about another 3k for it all but hey what a sleeper on the motorway... torque figures suggest at least 400lbs of torque... so another new clutch again... lol and single mass fly, and custom manifold and maybe new intercooler...
but as i said, the base car is there to handle the power... just a point of give the Leon all of it....

After that, hey maybe i should look into finding a old R32 for the 4 wheel drive system to really use that 260-270bhp....

Sounds fackin' awesome matey. I imagine, I'll be going down the 'bigger turbo / injectors' route at some point next year, but for the time being I've just enjoyed my first weekend of the car fully working!

I've been thinking about 4 wheel drive over the last week or two... From a Golf point of view, I was thinking I'd buy a 2.8 V6 4Motion as a base car, and transplant a reworked 16v 2.0 PD - Hmmmmm... ) 5 grand for the car, plus another 5 grand for the engine / mods - it'd be one sweet, and more importantly, original car!

'Slick' - you PM'd me asking where I got my sump guard from. Thought it was pretty useful info, so am posting your reply here...

I emailed the guys at http://www.dieselgeek.com/ and they were really helpful, and sorted a decent price including postage. They're $250 and I think postage was around $50. When I bought it, that was about £190 - now it's yours for just over £150 - lovely ol'exchange rate! ;o)

T

 

[slick]

Thanks for the info mate.. get help...

Now maybe i can order it in the new year and save my oil sump...

 

[delaxm]

diffs

If you don't mind me asking, is yours a Quaife? As my mate uses one of these in his golf rally car http://www.peloquins.com/

 

[Sisson]

Look in his sig mate...

Yeah its a quaiffe diff

 

[Triple D]

I'm looking at upgrading my 1.9tdi FR with celtic tuning, Basically i'll get 230bhp and 260lb/ft of torque but them working on the turbo, remapping the car and sticking a new exhaust and air filter on.
Is this gonna be a good idea or does anyone know of any other company, Bearing in mind i've been quoted £2000 for the lot inc. fitting

Cheers

hhmm 2k for all that, seems a bit iffy to me im afraid. Im not sure what experiance celtic tuning have really had on diesel tuning in the case of hybrid turbos etc etc, but the only place i would go to is ALLARD MOTOR COMPANY. Yes so ok i have had my fair share of problems with the car, its just one of those things, but Lloyd and alans knowledge and customer service skills are absolutly excellent. Alan whows how turbos work more than anyone i would think, he has published several books on them, also on tdi tuning iirc and have both been very heavily into tuning diesels over the last decade i would suggest.

I have also experianced a quaife atb diff in stoneyfords ibiza tdi and boy is that an awsome peice of kit. No wheelspin, no understeer nothing. I will deffinately get one when i get my mk4 cupra 20vt next year.It was one of the reasons i wanted a focus RS as they have them as standard.

Anyways, back to topic, i would suggest sorting the rest of the car out before you seriously up the power. here is a list i would suggest:

Brakes, 312's or better,
suspension, coil overs or uprated shocks and springs, front and rear strut braces, arb's
FMIC: forge or seat sport one
exhaust: Full milltek system from turbo back
gauges: egt and oil pressure and temp and also a boost gauge.
wheels and tyres: depending if you already have 17's get decent rubber on them to beable to put the power down
mechainical: Quaife atb differential, and uprated clutch, or if you really wanted, a single mass flywheel conversion.


So as you can see, just from that little list, you are looking at atleast 4k on parts alone, then labour aswell.

IMHO i would seriously recomend you spend the 2k on them things first, and you will reap the rewards later when you do evenually go for the power upgrades.What really does get on my tits is people who up the power, without uprating the parts around them to make them work better together.

Seriously consider 2 things, where you get the work done at, and what parts you should get first.

 

[devonutopia]

When I was planning my 220 odd pd130 conversion to my fabia, I'd already factored in spending 600 on an uprated clutch, and already had the box of 312mm brakes to replace the 256s, before my engine even came out of my car.... I'm hoping all thats needed for 270hp is a mofo of a turbo, and a camshaft. Standard injectors combined with the lpg at the top end will hopefully give me some excellent power. If not, I'll have to get the race injectors....

 

[Triple D]

Yep, i had done everything to mine before i had upped the power, changed suspension, clutch, brakes, exhaust and fmic all changed, then upped the power. Best way IMHO