Trouble starting FR TDI - Starter motor or engine...?

iammooks

Active Member
Nov 27, 2018
1,787
1,176
My car was sat on my parents' driveway for the past week what with Christmas, the New Year etc. and I hadn't moved it. It's been cold and wet pretty much the whole time it was parked up. I packed it up last night to head back home, went to turn it over and nothing happened. All the usual lights came on, but it just wouldn't turn over. It wouldn't even try. Tried a few variations of ignition on, off, key out, getting out of the car, locking and unlocking etc. just to see if any of those things fixed it, but nothing.

I've mentioned on 'what have you done to your car...' several months back that I'd had some issues with starting the car, and thought it was the starter motor, but after a couple of goes, the car would start. This time, nothing was happening at all. Battery is good, replaced that at the start of the year, and no other real issues to speak of, outside of the usual 165k kinds of stuff.

What got it started in the end was that I put it in first gear and tried to push it to see if that loosened or cracked anything off that was holding things up. It didn't move, even on the flat. I put it in neutral and it moved fine, so decided to push it, jump in the driver's seat, put it in first gear and then drop the clutch. It stopped dead when I did it, but after that, I was able to turn the engine over. It laboured a bit, but it worked and got me home. When I dropped some things off at my girlfriend's place after driving it for two hours, it started again without any issues.

Ordinarily, I'd think it needs a new starter, but given the starter isn't always in contact with the flywheel (I think?), I shouldn't have had to do the whole thing putting it into first gear etc. and essentially bump starting it, so I'm wondering if the engine is actually seizing. Even when it starts normally, there's often smoke and smells from the exhaust and I sometimes have to give the engine a good rev, otherwise it feels like it's not got as much power at higher revs.

It's a diesel, and I have had the usual issues with the EGR etc. being dirty (but not clogged) and I've been talking about cleaning the intake manifold for years now. I haven't used any fuel additives for a while now and am starting to wonder if that's causing any issues too.

Long and the short of it is that while I love this car and have put so much work into it over the years, I'm getting a bit fed up with it now and I'm not wanting to put more money into it unless I know what I do is going to fix the problem. It's also the time of year when I service the car, so if it involves using a different oil or a different grade that'll adhere to the cylinders better, I can do that too. Or it could just be the starter...
 
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BadBoy03

A Mk1 Is For Life, Not Just For Fun
Sep 6, 2016
685
451
Somerset
Sorry to hear your problem, so frustrating!
I'm not familiar with diesels unfortunately, but I had something similar with my car last week.
Like you it was sat idle for about 2 weeks & when I went to start, had all ignition lights on but no response with turn of the key. It set the alarm off at the same time, despite key in ignition, so I removed it, got out of car locked, unlocked then put key back in & it finally stopped the alarm.
I am assuming battery, even though it's 6 months old, but I think it may also be a case of damp connections somewhere. I have to admit I abandoned it on my drive & got in my other car.
I am picking up a battery charger this avo to give it a boost, then I will see what happens.
Maybe check the battery charge, mine is low.
Hope someone else can shed some technical light on your issue. Best of luck.
 

Dazzalcr

Active Member
Aug 10, 2019
313
294
Lancashire
Ok, matt Armstrong has just done a video on YouTube and basically bought a flood damaged rolls royce Cullen and everything worked pretty much, it started but took many turns, it was the starter motor even though he thought it would not be due to it eventually starting, either the motor or solenoid was playing up turning very slow instead of being rapid. Maybe worth a watch
 

Battoussai

Active Member
Mar 22, 2016
481
145
Portugal
My car was sat on my parents' driveway for the past week what with Christmas, the New Year etc. and I hadn't moved it. It's been cold and wet pretty much the whole time it was parked up. I packed it up last night to head back home, went to turn it over and nothing happened. All the usual lights came on, but it just wouldn't turn over. It wouldn't even try. Tried a few variations of ignition on, off, key out, getting out of the car, locking and unlocking etc. just to see if any of those things fixed it, but nothing.

I've mentioned on 'what have you done to your car...' several months back that I'd had some issues with starting the car, and thought it was the starter motor, but after a couple of goes, the car would start. This time, nothing was happening at all. Battery is good, replaced that at the start of the year, and no other real issues to speak of, outside of the usual 165k kinds of stuff.

What got it started in the end was that I put it in first gear and tried to push it to see if that loosened or cracked anything off that was holding things up. It didn't move, even on the flat. I put it in neutral and it moved fine, so decided to push it, jump in the driver's seat, put it in first gear and then drop the clutch. It stopped dead when I did it, but after that, I was able to turn the engine over. It laboured a bit, but it worked and got me home. When I dropped some things off at my girlfriend's place after driving it for two hours, it started again without any issues.

Ordinarily, I'd think it needs a new starter, but given the starter isn't always in contact with the flywheel (I think?), I shouldn't have had to do the whole thing putting it into first gear etc. and essentially bump starting it, so I'm wondering if the engine is actually seizing. Even when it starts normally, there's often smoke and smells from the exhaust and I sometimes have to give the engine a good rev, otherwise it feels like it's not got as much power at higher revs.

It's a diesel, and I have had the usual issues with the EGR etc. being dirty (but not clogged) and I've been talking about cleaning the intake manifold for years now. I haven't used any fuel additives for a while now and am starting to wonder if that's causing any issues too.

Long and the short of it is that while I love this car and have put so much work into it over the years, I'm getting a bit fed up with it now and I'm not wanting to put more money into it unless I know what I do is going to fix the problem. It's also the time of year when I service the car, so if it involves using a different oil or a different grade that'll adhere to the cylinders better, I can do that too. Or it could just be the starter...
Hi there. Diesel AHF 110hp here. Mine has done that to myself a year ago. I gave battery a good home charge and even tried the booster but it didn't start. Not even with a downhill push. Took it to my long time VAG reliable mech and he took off the starter motor. Dismantled the whole ting apart and re-solder the wires on the solenoid. Checked the starter with multimeter and voilá! Back on the car and it stills runs fine nowadays. Cost: 25€. He told me that other mechs don't bother to repair the starter and just ask for a expensive replacement. My most budget friendly advice is to try to find a place where they fix starters.

Best regards and good luck.
 
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Reactions: BadBoy03

BadBoy03

A Mk1 Is For Life, Not Just For Fun
Sep 6, 2016
685
451
Somerset
Ok, matt Armstrong has just done a video on YouTube and basically bought a flood damaged rolls royce Cullen and everything worked pretty much, it started but took many turns, it was the starter motor even though he thought it would not be due to it eventually starting, either the motor or solenoid was playing up turning very slow instead of being rapid. Maybe worth a watch
That's an interesting thought, will definitely check that out. Cheers.
P.s New year...new problem 🤣
 

BadBoy03

A Mk1 Is For Life, Not Just For Fun
Sep 6, 2016
685
451
Somerset
Hi there. Diesel AHF 110hp here. Mine has done that to myself a year ago. I gave battery a good home charge and even tried the booster but it didn't start. Not even with a downhill push. Took it to my long time VAG reliable mech and he took off the starter motor. Dismantled the whole ting apart and re-solder the wires on the solenoid. Checked the starter with multimeter and voilá! Back on the car and it stills runs fine nowadays. Cost: 25€. He told me that other mechs don't bother to repair the starter and just ask for a expensive replacement. My most budget friendly advice is to try to find a place where they fix starters.

Best regards and good luck.
That's very good to hear 👍
 

iammooks

Active Member
Nov 27, 2018
1,787
1,176
This is all pretty reassuring, to be honest - with the weather being as cold as it is, I was worried the engine might be seizing from condensation. If that froze and I tried to start it, that could lead to some sadness.

When I turn the key on before turning over the engine, I used to hear a kind of electrical hum that I'm not hearing anymore, so it could be something to do with the starter.

Whatever happens, a starter or even trying to fix the old one, is way cheaper than doing anything to the engine. It does need some care too, but I can work on that after getting the car through its MoT this month.

If I can recondition the starter, I'll post a bit of a how-to here - I prefer fixing to replacing anyway, and if it helps anyone else, so much the better...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BadBoy03

A Mk1 Is For Life, Not Just For Fun
Sep 6, 2016
685
451
Somerset
This is all pretty reassuring, to be honest - with the weather being as cold as it is, I was worried the engine might be seizing from condensation. If that froze and I tried to start it, that could lead to some sadness.

When I turn the key on before turning over the engine, I used to hear a kind of electrical hum that I'm not hearing anymore, so it could be something to do with the starter.

Whatever happens, a starter or even trying to fix the old one, is way cheaper than doing anything to the engine. It does need some care too, but I can work on that after getting the car through its MoT this month.

If I can recondition the starter, I'll post a bit of a how-to here - I prefer fixing to replacing anyway, and if it helps anyone else, so much the better...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The hum on ignition is the fuel pump priming. If your pump is done for this would come up with a code too.
I believe you can tap along fuel line with elevated rear to get some fuel moving, enough to start, but not tried this myself. I have no idea if this applies to diesels also.
 
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