This is what a stage 2 1.4TSI truthfully makes

[Revo Kev]

Mode 2 on Ultimate in UK conditions is fine... unless the car has a problem!

 

[ibizacupra]

lol @ Dyno's and the ensuing threads/debate

Here's the appropriate img

and for DD rollers, they are not the be all and end all of dyno's regardless of what you hear
Only measuring atw figures +% adder does not make for a "definitive result"

 

[phil_monk31]

Is it possible that the intake temps on Jasons might have affected it? These engines run hot and the cooling pack on the front has a lot of plastic around it to limit the performance?

I think you should run it with a full blown car, no disrespect to Jason, but I think with the addition of a FMIC and intake such as ITG (Not forge) you would see a bigger increase.

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

I am so confused with these graphs, I see the torque being lower than stock, honestly how do expect more power with lower torque? Comparing stage 1 or 2 or 3 without stating i.e. how many degrees of advance, or boost pressure or how many grams of air you intake has,how do you expect to get a conclusion? You try to see what the maximum output of this car might be but you bring as example cars that are not even full peripherals.

Because i have wasted alot of money and time I can tell you for sure the power is there and you can get up to a maximum of 240 with the stock turbine and this means full GOOD peripherals and a super streched remap. With a different turbine your maximum output would be around 265-270 and 37kgs of torque at which point the DSG goes into safe mode after the first or second run. The limit that I would run this car is 260 bhp with 35kg of torque.

 

[phil_monk31]

GRDuDE = This is sort of what I was thinking. Both cars to me look like they have problems limiting the performance, and the first thing that I thought was possible intake?

I also suspect that the VRS has the revised engine with the newer Supercharge and Waterpump outfit, this is VWs answer to the miss fire problem, but I dont know how to comfirm that other than check the VIN as it us a bit hush hush.

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

GRDuDE = This is sort of what I was thinking. Both cars to me look like they have problems limiting the performance, and the first thing that I thought was possible intake?

I also suspect that the VRS has the revised engine with the newer Supercharge and Waterpump outfit, this is VWs answer to the miss fire problem, but I dont know how to comfirm that other than check the VIN as it us a bit hush hush.

First of all apologies for my mistake the torque is measured in FtLb and not Nm so i guess we are talking around 30,5 kg of torque still less that the 32+kg that Revo is promising.
in order to have horsepower you need torque due to the formula below

Bhp = Torque x Rpm / 5252

I wouldnt say that any of the cars above are problematic, we all misunderstand the meaning of remap, a remap could be 1,3bar and 0,9@ limiter with 12 degrees of advance or could be 1,6bar and 1,3@limiter with 18 degrees of advance. The difference in horsepower would be significant.

Especially Vrsy's car given that the only proper mod is the intake/remap the result is fairly good, you could add the intercooler that would give better output only by it self,a full exhaust again there are gains without remap, removal of the catalyst which agains gives another 7 bhp for free, different pipes, F5D0r sparkplugs and a BoV and add to that the ability to stretch the remap even more due to the peripherals.

 

[ibizacupra]

logs with dyno's so complete picture is possible
(just like I do on Dyno Days.. for this very reason)

 

[vRSy]

on the three dynos we originally tested on all the 1.4TSI cars made more than stock quoted power. These cars really suffer from heatsoak, which means there is a tendency to see even more difference between cars on a dyno day.

this is what im getting at, mine went on 2 seperate rollers and made stock figures on both.

That graph where i posted the before and after shows the actual gains which just so happen to correlate with the other JKMs results graph. and i have the intake fitted now. Also mine was suffering with heatsoak as well, the original power on its first run was 215hp but by the time jim was happy with the runs accuracy it was making 213hp consitently.

These cars dont make more than stock figures unless you go to a generous rolling road IMO. The weather was nice and cool as well

Also considering my car was neigh on identical to jasons stage 2 cupra, id imagine that he to would have made stock figures if he ran it on the dyno stock.

 

[sly200sx]

I had myself all geared up now to get this Revo'd and now may look at others now. Then again as i re read the thread then Revo Kev has explained it..

 

[vRSy]

I had myself all geared up now to get this Revo'd and now may look at others now.

i dont think theres anything wrong with revo, as me and jason said mine and his car are practically identical in performance.

What i started this thread for is to highlight that the expected figures are comical IMO. how many stage 1 guys are running 220Hp on here? Ive been saying for ages, way before i got my map that i didnt believe half of the figures being thrown around, and judging by the dynos they ere achieved on im not surprised either as i have experienced huge unrealistic figures on most of them in my previous car.

This is whyt i only pay attention to DD rollers, they are the only ones which stock cars make stock figures on the large majority of the time, but more importantly irrelevant of what dyno dynamics roller you are on, they always give consistent readings with each other

all the cars which have made these great figures have made 'above' stock figures before the map,

 

[phil_monk31]

Also considering my car was neigh on identical to jasons stage 2 cupra, id imagine that he to would have made stock figures if he ran it on the dyno stock.

What I was trying to say dude is that I dont think yours is the same. I think as yours is that bit newer it might have the revised Supercharger and Waterpump whitch seems to be improving the new cars performance. On VW's paper it gives 5-7PS so not much realy but it might affect these results.

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

What i started this thread for is to highlight that the expected figures are comical IMO. how many stage 1 guys are running 220Hp on here? Ive been saying for ages, way before i got my map that i didnt believe half of the figures being thrown around, and judging by the dynos they ere achieved on im not surprised either as i have experienced huge unrealistic figures on most of them in my previous car.

But bro you are running only with filter and remap for 95 octane fuel, what did u expect 300bhp? You cant say that 213 is the maximum you ll get with this car, doesnt make any sense and given that you had a Stage 3 Vrs i am sure you are aware of tuning and whats going on.

I believe maybe we are lost with all the marketing crap about stage 1,2,3 ,4 ,5 blah blah.
Filter and remap is not stage 1 or at least not a complete stage 1.

 

[vRSy]

Eh? I expected to get around 210hp and i got 213hp so im more than happy. Im not the one claiming my car makes huge figures at stage 1/2. Ive not said 213Hp is the maximum this car will take, i said this is what a stage 2 car will get. when they sort out a stage 2+ id expect more power

Im running a stage 1+/2 map setup for 98 ron+ fuel, but running 99 ron fuel and have a decatted exhaust to go with the forge intake. Either way im not bothered what you think my stage of tune is as i more than matched Jasons stage 2 car which has the full TBE on setting B for 98ron fuel+. Im not chasing figures at all, i got what i was expecting and what my tuner also said to realistically expect. They found the thought of 230hp on stock turbo highly amusing and said it would be fine if i want to use my turbo as a consumable item.

Im not lost on the tuning stages of the car at all, im more than happy about the tuning stages, Im just realistic and im more than realistic is what you will find.

you have managed 250ish Hp iirc, but that took a hybrid turbo. On previous cars i have seen running hybrid turbos they normally gain 25-30hp over the previous stage of tune which would drop your power to just above what we are running.

What I was trying to say dude is that I dont think yours is the same. I think as yours is that bit newer it might have the revised Supercharger and Waterpump whitch seems to be improving the new cars performance. On VW's paper it gives 5-7PS so not much realy but it might affect these results.

yet my car makes stock figures on the dyno? and all the previous Ibizas make around 200hp apparently.....

 

[duffy_90]

I am currently looking at going stage 2 next month and my tuner PDT run with DD rollers so i will post up my results as soon as possible it will be quite interesting to see what i get

 

[phil_monk31]

yet my car makes stock figures on the dyno? and all the previous Ibizas make around 200hp apparently.....

If it ran spot on, thats cool I must admit I dont for one second take any 200Bhp stock cars serious.

I have also tuned many cars and done the Hybrid turbo thing on most. I am not 100% into this stage one and stage 2 things. However I actualy think that 230BHP is somthing that can be done on the stock turbo..... I have a few more things to do and then this is what I want to hit on the stock turbo. If I dont get there its not the end of the world, but I am going to try

 

[ibizacupra]

This is whyt i only pay attention to DD rollers, they are the only ones which stock cars make stock figures on the large majority of the time, but more importantly irrelevant of what dyno dynamics roller you are on, they always give consistent readings with each other

DD can be run as differently to each other as any dyno...
sounds like the DD sales pitch of mike

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

Eh? I expected to get around 210hp and i got 213hp so im more than happy. Im not the one claiming my car makes huge figures at stage 1/2. Ive not said 213Hp is the maximum this car will take, i said this is what a stage 2 car will get. when they sort out a stage 2+ id expect more power

Im running a stage 1+/2 map setup for 98 ron+ fuel, but running 99 ron fuel and have a decatted exhaust to go with the forge intake. Either way im not bothered what you think my stage of tune is as i more than matched Jasons stage 2 car which has the full TBE on setting B for 98ron fuel+. Im not chasing figures at all, i got what i was expecting and what my tuner also said to realistically expect. They found the thought of 230hp on stock turbo highly amusing and said it would be fine if i want to use my turbo as a consumable item.

Im not lost on the tuning stages of the car at all, im more than happy about the tuning stages, Im just realistic and im more than realistic is what you will find.

you have managed 250ish Hp iirc, but that took a hybrid turbo. On previous cars i have seen running hybrid turbos they normally gain 25-30hp over the previous stage of tune which would drop your power to just above what we are running.


yet my car makes stock figures on the dyno? and all the previous Ibizas make around 200hp apparently.....

But dude i said that your car has produced a logical/good result, you cant say its tunned to stage 1+ or 2 without an exhaust or intercooler what stage will be if you add those stage 4?. The stock cooler if awfull there are more peripherals to get and tune it for 100octane.

You say you are not bothered about figures but you tell us that some of us are fools to believe these numbers can be achieved despite the fact some people have spent 6-7k euros on this car trying set-ups.But of course the super dooper tuners that have not bothered much on this car are laughing with the 230bhp as stage 1 well tell them that we got more than that, i can post up pictures of the condition of my stock turbine and they can tell us if they see anything damaged, doesnt matter tho because when UK tuners were laughing at Ibiza Cupra 20VT and what the real potential output could be, we had here Stage 2 injector/S3 maf reaching 290+bhp with stock turbine.

Now coming to the hybrid turbine the maximum we got was 270bhp the problem was the DSG would go into safe mode at 37kg of torque, the turbine had another 20bhp to give but the DSG clutch pack is stopping me.Currently running at 260bhp.

I really cba to convert this into a debate, imo doesnt matter how much bhp you have all it matters is for the owner to enjoy his car.

 

[WJs]

UK tuners were laughing at Ibiza Cupra 20VT and what the real potential output could be, we had here Stage 2 injector/S3 maf reaching 290+bhp with stock turbine.

Did you just say you got 290hp out of an Ibiza Cupra 20vt with a stock K03s and S3 injectors/maf?

 

[vRSy]

GrDuDe_Cupra what are you on about. it has a decat exhaust which will give it a vastly improved flow rate, very likely not far off a 200cell downpipe. On the leon II forum there are a couple guys running the same setups as me who match the same power of the guys with same software, mods and a full TBE.

Ive not said that 230hp cant be achieved, i said it cant be achieved at stage 2.

stage 1 has no requirements.
Stage 2 requirements are a performance downpipe and that is it. The downpipe is required to not only improve flow but reduce EGTs. The cat back is just a small benefit over the DP.
Stage 2+ requirements are an intake, full exhaust and intercooler (sometimes a HPFP)
stage 3 is hybrids, or turbo upgrades
stage 4 is turbo upgrades and cam upgrades

DD can be run as differently to each other as any dyno...
sounds like the DD sales pitch of mike

no idea who mike is. thats my personal experience of using 5 separate dyno dynamics(alan jeffreys, JKM, Surrey rolling road, Sanspeed and IAM Motorsport) rollers on numerous occasions and always being within a couple Hp/lbft of each other. Yet ive used AMDs on 3 occasions and have had vastly differing results each time with zero changes to the car.

 

[ibizacupra]

... UK tuners were laughing at Ibiza Cupra 20VT and what the real potential output could be, we had here Stage 2 injector/S3 maf reaching 290+bhp with stock turbine.
.

now thats funny