Swap S3 for Leon? Am I mad?

[Revulike]

I would like a bit more space, more equipment and lower monthly payments, so looking to swap my 2021 S3 sportback for a used Leon estate, most likely the 310.

I'm guessing the 310 Leon will be pretty much the same performance-wise, and feel the same driving?

I have also considered (due to pricing) the 190hp and even the 150hp . The 245hp of the hybrid looks ok on paper, but then there's all the fuss of getting a charger, more kit to go wrong, no charge & extra weight etc.

One thing I know I would miss on the S3 is that it has buttons and switches for everything! (except auto brakes).

Am I mad?

 

[H Rafiq]

What about the Leon Cupra 5f estate, with 4WD? Or too old for you? The boot will be bigger of course, but I don’t think the space in the rear seats will be bigger to be honest.

 

[SRGTD]

@Revulike - No, I don’t think you’re mad. I’d recommend getting an extended test drive though so you can reassure yourself you’re making the right decision for you. Also, if you’re buying a used example of the current model, make sure it’s got the latest software version to minimise the risk of software gremlins that have afflicted many earlier current generation VAG cars.

Not quite the same, but I recently sold my VW Polo GTI+ for a small non-VAG brand car. I found that with the single carriageway A and B roads I drive regularly being very heavily congested most of the time, there was pretty much no opportunity to use the GTI’s performance when sitting in a steam of traffic travelling at (usually) 50 mph or slower.

My current car has a 52 bhp deficit compared to the VW, but has a much better spec equipment-wise, it’s more comfortable than the Polo, it has physical buttons and switches and the dealer has been brilliant. Do I regret making the change? Not at all.

 

[Revulike]

What about the Leon Cupra 5f estate, with 4WD? Or too old for you? The boot will be bigger of course, but I don’t think the space in the rear seats will be bigger to be honest.

Yes, I am looking at the 5f as well. Ironically, I almost bought a 300 st lux instead of the S3. It was a great car, but I was dazzled by the S3's new tech and looks. I now realise I should probably have bought the SEAT, especially since it actually had MORE tech than the S3.

My other car is a 2014 5f Leon 1.2 Tech, 110hp. Also a really great car, but a tad slower than the S3!

 

[Revulike]

@Revulike - No, I don’t think you’re mad. I’d recommend getting an extended test drive though so you can reassure yourself you’re making the right decision for you. Also, if you’re buying a used example of the current model, make sure it’s got the latest software version to minimise the risk of software gremlins that have afflicted many earlier current generation VAG cars.

Not quite the same, but I recently sold my VW Polo GTI+ for a small non-VAG brand car. I found that with the single carriageway A and B roads I drive regularly being very heavily congested most of the time, there was pretty much no opportunity to use the GTI’s performance when sitting in a steam of traffic travelling at (usually) 50 mph or slower.

My current car has a 52 bhp deficit compared to the VW, but has a much better spec equipment-wise, it’s more comfortable than the Polo, it has physical buttons and switches and the dealer has been brilliant. Do I regret making the change? Not at all.

Exactly this.

Average UK motorway speed is now 45mph.

A and B roads clogged with Boomers in their new SUVs (usually Kodiaks) doing 35mph on the way to lunch at garden centre. (I hope I haven't offended).

Best requirement may now be Traffic Jam Assist!

 

[tracktoy]

Exactly this.

Average UK motorway speed is now 45mph.

A and B roads clogged with Boomers in their new SUVs (usually Kodiaks) doing 35mph on the way to lunch at garden centre. (I hope I haven't offended).

Best requirement may now be Traffic Jam Assist!

And Tractors, This is why mine spends most of its life on the track to be able to use and enjoy the power without the worry of the inevitable speeding fine.

 

[SRGTD]

And Tractors, This is why mine spends most of its life on the track to be able to use and enjoy the power without the worry of the inevitable speeding fine.

Don’t get me started on tractors .

I live in quite an agricultural part of the UK so there are often tractors on the roads. I accept there are occasions when they need to use the roads, but what really annoys me is they don’t pull over into lay-bys and designated passing places when they have the opportunity to do so to let following motorists pass them . Oh, and why do they always seem to choose the busiest times to be out on the roads, causing extremely long tailbacks………..

 

[Solo]

I would like a bit more space, more equipment and lower monthly payments, so looking to swap my 2021 S3 sportback for a used Leon estate, most likely the 310.

Am I mad?

If you want more space, more equipment and lower monthly payments then no, you're not mad. It makes sense.

If having a high performance 'prestige' brand is high priority then yes, you might be mad.

 

[Revulike]

Does the 190hp have soundaktor sounds?

In all the videos I've seen, it's very quiet.

 

[Revulike]

If you want more space, more equipment and lower monthly payments then no, you're not mad. It makes sense.

If having a high performance 'prestige' brand is high priority then yes, you might be mad.

Not worried about the badge. I'd be very happy with a SEAT or Cupra.

 

[Revulike]

@Revulike - No, I don’t think you’re mad. I’d recommend getting an extended test drive though so you can reassure yourself you’re making the right decision for you. Also, if you’re buying a used example of the current model, make sure it’s got the latest software version to minimise the risk of software gremlins that have afflicted many earlier current generation VAG cars.

Not quite the same, but I recently sold my VW Polo GTI+ for a small non-VAG brand car. I found that with the single carriageway A and B roads I drive regularly being very heavily congested most of the time, there was pretty much no opportunity to use the GTI’s performance when sitting in a steam of traffic travelling at (usually) 50 mph or slower.

My current car has a 52 bhp deficit compared to the VW, but has a much better spec equipment-wise, it’s more comfortable than the Polo, it has physical buttons and switches and the dealer has been brilliant. Do I regret making the change? Not at all.

Which non VAG car did you buy?

I've even considered a Kia Proceed GT estate!

 

[SRGTD]

Which non VAG car did you buy?

I've even considered a Kia Proceed GT estate!

You did ask, so here goes….. Apologies for the long post.

The car I bought is something I thought I’d never ever consider, so I surprised myself. In fact, up until very recently I wasn’t even considering changing my car. However, having owned VW’s for 22 years I quite fancied something different, and with a number of poor dealership experiences over the past 2-3 years I started looking at alternatives.

As I said in my previous post in this discussion topic, I found I wasn’t using my GTI’s performance potential on the very congested roads I drive on. My main criteria for the replacement was a non-VW / non-VAG as I fancied a change, a small B segment car with good spec, decent economy, reasonable performance and with better ride comfort than I was used to in the GTI (I‘ve a long standing back problem that doesn’t improve with age), comfortable, supportive seats and proper physical controls for most often used functions. Oh, and something that doesn’t have VAG’s recent track record of software gremlins / issues. I also wanted it to fit my 1980’s (small) single sized garage and I wanted the dealership experience to be better than I’d been used to latterly from VW. Possibly a bit of a tall order if all of the criteria was to be met? Maybe.……….

I also considered Kia; a Ceed, but it was larger than I need and wouldn’t fit my garage easily. I did like it though and in some ways, it reminded me a lot of the mk6 Golf GTD I owned - no bad thing, as the GTD was one of the best cars I’ve owned.

I took a leap of faith and went for………….a French car! . Definitely a leap of faith as I’ve always associated French cars with dodgy electrics, patchy build quality and questionable reliability. So I’m now the owner of a Renault Clio e tech in top spec Esprit Alpine trim. It’s a full (self charging) hybrid so doesn’t need to be plugged in to charge the traction battery, and it does satisfy pretty much all of my criteria. I’d say the build quality is equal to - if not better than my last VW; panel fit, shut lines and paint finish are much better, everything feels well screwed together and the interior is creak and rattle free. The seats are also super comfy, supportive and some of the best of any car I’ve owned. If I’m going to nitpick, the sound of the tailgate shutting isn’t quite as solid sounding as a VW tailgate. I also like the pseudo 3 door look with the mk2 Seat Leon style ‘hidden’ rear door handles. Time will tell if it suffers from VAG-type software gremlins, but I’ve had it for three months and no issues so far.

Dealership experience has been great with the staff going that extra mile; way better than any dealership experience I’ve had with VW. The dealership is a small local (to me) dealer that’s won Renault‘s Dealer of the Year award multiple times and I can see why. Aftersales service is also really good - my car had to have a dealer-installed software update; car booked in, courtesy car provided and done within a matter of days and good communication by the after sales team.

So all in all I’m happy and have no regrets, although I wish it didn’t have diamond cut alloys as I’m not a fan of diamond cut wheels. Oh, and fuel economy is great - long term average is around 60mpg, although I expect that to drop a little over the winter months as the traction battery will probably by less efficient in the colder weather.

And here it is;

And these are the super comfy supportive seats;

 

[Seastormer]

You did ask, so here goes….. Apologies for the long post.

The car I bought is something I thought I’d never ever consider, so I surprised myself. In fact, up until very recently I wasn’t even considering changing my car. However, having owned VW’s for 22 years I quite fancied something different, and with a number of poor dealership experiences over the past 2-3 years I started looking at alternatives.

As I said in my previous post in this discussion topic, I found I wasn’t using my GTI’s performance potential on the very congested roads I drive on. My main criteria for the replacement was a non-VW / non-VAG as I fancied a change, a small B segment car with good spec, decent economy, reasonable performance and with better ride comfort than I was used to in the GTI (I‘ve a long standing back problem that doesn’t improve with age), comfortable, supportive seats and proper physical controls for most often used functions. Oh, and something that doesn’t have VAG’s recent track record of software gremlins / issues. I also wanted it to fit my 1980’s (small) single sized garage and I wanted the dealership experience to be better than I’d been used to latterly from VW. Possibly a bit of a tall order if all of the criteria was to be met? Maybe.……….

I also considered Kia; a Ceed, but it was larger than I need and wouldn’t fit my garage easily. I did like it though and in some ways, it reminded me a lot of the mk6 Golf GTD I owned - no bad thing, as the GTD was one of the best cars I’ve owned.

I took a leap of faith and went for………….a French car! . Definitely a leap of faith as I’ve always associated French cars with dodgy electrics, patchy build quality and questionable reliability. So I’m now the owner of a Renault Clio e tech in top spec Esprit Alpine trim. It’s a full (self charging) hybrid so doesn’t need to be plugged in to charge the traction battery, and it does satisfy pretty much all of my criteria. I’d say the build quality is equal to - if not better than my last VW; panel fit, shut lines and paint finish are much better, everything feels well screwed together and the interior is creak and rattle free. The seats are also super comfy, supportive and some of the best of any car I’ve owned. If I’m going to nitpick, the sound of the tailgate shutting isn’t quite as solid sounding as a VW tailgate. I also like the pseudo 3 door look with the mk2 Seat Leon style ‘hidden’ rear door handles. Time will tell if it suffers from VAG-type software gremlins, but I’ve had it for three months and no issues so far.

Dealership experience has been great with the staff going that extra mile; way better than any dealership experience I’ve had with VW. The dealership is a small local (to me) dealer that’s won Renault‘s Dealer of the Year award multiple times and I can see why. Aftersales service is also really good - my car had to have a dealer-installed software update; car booked in, courtesy car provided and done within a matter of days and good communication by the after sales team.

So all in all I’m happy and have no regrets, although I wish it didn’t have diamond cut alloys as I’m not a fan of diamond cut wheels. Oh, and fuel economy is great - long term average is around 60mpg, although I expect that to drop a little over the winter months as the traction battery will probably by less efficient in the colder weather.

And here it is;

View attachment 45741

And these are the super comfy supportive seats;

View attachment 45742

Looks nice and glad your happy with it, but I still would not buy a French car myself, enjoy and hope everything goes well.

 

[Revulike]

You did ask, so here goes….. Apologies for the long post.

The car I bought is something I thought I’d never ever consider, so I surprised myself. In fact, up until very recently I wasn’t even considering changing my car. However, having owned VW’s for 22 years I quite fancied something different, and with a number of poor dealership experiences over the past 2-3 years I started looking at alternatives.

As I said in my previous post in this discussion topic, I found I wasn’t using my GTI’s performance potential on the very congested roads I drive on. My main criteria for the replacement was a non-VW / non-VAG as I fancied a change, a small B segment car with good spec, decent economy, reasonable performance and with better ride comfort than I was used to in the GTI (I‘ve a long standing back problem that doesn’t improve with age), comfortable, supportive seats and proper physical controls for most often used functions. Oh, and something that doesn’t have VAG’s recent track record of software gremlins / issues. I also wanted it to fit my 1980’s (small) single sized garage and I wanted the dealership experience to be better than I’d been used to latterly from VW. Possibly a bit of a tall order if all of the criteria was to be met? Maybe.……….

I also considered Kia; a Ceed, but it was larger than I need and wouldn’t fit my garage easily. I did like it though and in some ways, it reminded me a lot of the mk6 Golf GTD I owned - no bad thing, as the GTD was one of the best cars I’ve owned.

I took a leap of faith and went for………….a French car! . Definitely a leap of faith as I’ve always associated French cars with dodgy electrics, patchy build quality and questionable reliability. So I’m now the owner of a Renault Clio e tech in top spec Esprit Alpine trim. It’s a full (self charging) hybrid so doesn’t need to be plugged in to charge the traction battery, and it does satisfy pretty much all of my criteria. I’d say the build quality is equal to - if not better than my last VW; panel fit, shut lines and paint finish are much better, everything feels well screwed together and the interior is creak and rattle free. The seats are also super comfy, supportive and some of the best of any car I’ve owned. If I’m going to nitpick, the sound of the tailgate shutting isn’t quite as solid sounding as a VW tailgate. I also like the pseudo 3 door look with the mk2 Seat Leon style ‘hidden’ rear door handles. Time will tell if it suffers from VAG-type software gremlins, but I’ve had it for three months and no issues so far.

Dealership experience has been great with the staff going that extra mile; way better than any dealership experience I’ve had with VW. The dealership is a small local (to me) dealer that’s won Renault‘s Dealer of the Year award multiple times and I can see why. Aftersales service is also really good - my car had to have a dealer-installed software update; car booked in, courtesy car provided and done within a matter of days and good communication by the after sales team.

So all in all I’m happy and have no regrets, although I wish it didn’t have diamond cut alloys as I’m not a fan of diamond cut wheels. Oh, and fuel economy is great - long term average is around 60mpg, although I expect that to drop a little over the winter months as the traction battery will probably by less efficient in the colder weather.

And here it is;

View attachment 45741

And these are the super comfy supportive seats;

View attachment 45742

Wow, that is quite a change!

I had a Mk1 Cleo and loved it! Great fun car. Although it did seem to consume lamp bulbs regularly.

I am a bit anxious regarding software bugs in the VAG cars now, although it does seem to vary among the VAG brands. So far, the only issues I had with the S3 are my Android Auto disconnecting (I just reconnect) and a child lock fault, which is pretty much ever present, but I just ignore.

My local Audi dealership is just awful. Truly awful. Not just unhelpful or useless, but contemptuous and untrustworthy. So I can see why having a good dealer is such a bonus.

 

[SRGTD]

Wow, that is quite a change!

I had a Mk1 Cleo and loved it! Great fun car. Although it did seem to consume lamp bulbs regularly.

I am a bit anxious regarding software bugs in the VAG cars now, although it does seem to vary among the VAG brands. So far, the only issues I had with the S3 are my Android Auto disconnecting (I just reconnect) and a child lock fault, which is pretty much ever present, but I just ignore.

My local Audi dealership is just awful. Truly awful. Not just unhelpful or useless, but contemptuous and untrustworthy. So I can see why having a good dealer is such a bonus.

Yes, quite a change indeed.

With the VW dealership I used, I’ve had poor PDI’s on all but 1 out of 5 brand new cars with build faults present that should have been put right prior to delivery but weren’t. With servicing there’ve been things missed and short measure on oil during a service last year and being overcharged on a service (I did get the amount of the overcharge back). When I mentioned the oil short measure - it was barely up to the minimum mark on the dipstick - the response by the service advisor was one of indifference and they couldn’t care less.

Ironically, the Renault dealership is less than two miles away from the VW dealership I used and the contrast between the two is like night and day - in a good way as far as the Renault dealership is concerned. The staff seem to genuinely care and go the extra mile to ensure the customer is happy.

God old fashioned customer service counts for a lot in my book, and is an integral part of the overall vehicle ownership experience.

 

[Seastormer]

Yes, quite a change indeed.

With the VW dealership I used, I’ve had poor PDI’s on all but 1 out of 5 brand new cars with build faults present that should have been put right prior to delivery but weren’t. With servicing there’ve been things missed and short measure on oil during a service last year and being overcharged on a service (I did get the amount of the overcharge back). When I mentioned the oil short measure - it was barely up to the minimum mark on the dipstick - the response by the service advisor was one of indifference and they couldn’t care less.

Ironically, the Renault dealership is less than two miles away from the VW dealership I used and the contrast between the two is like night and day - in a good way as far as the Renault dealership is concerned. The staff seem to genuinely care and go the extra mile to ensure the customer is happy.

God old fashioned customer service counts for a lot in my book, and is an integral part of the overall vehicle ownership experience.

Yes, I am lucky that my dealer is a family run business and you are treated like a friend rather than just a punter.

 

[Revulike]

Update:

After much discussion and soul-searching, I have bought a 2024 V1 1.5 etsi estate. Mag grey.
It was hard to justify paying out to the pcp on an S3 I didn't use much, and that was constantly stuck in traffic or 50 mph limits. Usually both. My average speed in the S3, over almost 2 years of ownership, was 33 mph. Enough to make you weep. Plus it needed new front discs, Haldex service and oil service.

Anyway, my thoughts so far:

The Cupra looks amazing. I absolutely love the lines, cues and proportions. It's very nearly faultless IMO. Maybe a little high off the ground towards the rear.
I find myself having a sneaky glance at it on the drive every time I walk past the window. It's better overall than the S3.

Inside it's comfortable, pleasant and functional, with the exception of the screen based controls. Quality is easily on a par with the Audi, if not higher. New Audis still have just a 12v socket for rear passengers and no 3 zone climate. The Cupra is much roomier, with ample rear legroom.

So far I've not missed the extra 170hp of the S3. The 1.5 doesn't sound good, but it's surprisingly punchy at low speeds, so doesn't feel slow initially. Motorway driving is a breeze thanks to the acc, with plenty of power.

Complaints:

Massive road noise. Not sure if it's wind or tyres or both. The S3 was bad, the Cupra is worse.

Sometimes when pulling away, there is a strange judder, almost like clutch slip. It may be wheelspin. I'm still used to pulling away swiftly - which the S3 just did with aplomb - causing wheelspin and axle tramp in the Cupra. The tyres are Turanzas, so not great.

The screen. I change driver modes fairly often during a drive, so it's a faff. Same with the climate and driver aids. But the voice control for heating is good. Much better than Audi.

The journey continues.....

 

[Revulike]

And having *just* written that update, on the way to the supermarket, the screen went NUTS!

SOS module problem. Trying to call breakdown assistance. No problem driving home, but now trying to get booking for software update.

Bother.

 

[Seastormer]

And having *just* written that update, on the way to the supermarket, the screen went NUTS!

SOS module problem. Trying to call breakdown assistance. No problem driving home, but now trying to get booking for software update.

Bother.

You tempted fate and it has responded, think that is a well documented fault that many have had.