craig-pd130 said:I wonder if they had to change to a Pierburg MAF halfway through the race
hehe
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Shall I tell the 'petrol heads' or shall you
- Thread starter mark sheerin
- Start date
hehe
When you can get a 650bhp 12 Cylinder TDi in a Leon, then you can make comparison's
or when Lambo's come with that engine.
2 yrs ago someone ran a tdi in Le man in a Lola chassis (i think) - chewed the gearbox. so reliability is the key.
But it's all a farce if they're allowing bigger capacity, more boost, faster fuelling. They'll want a head start next
or when Lambo's come with that engine.
2 yrs ago someone ran a tdi in Le man in a Lola chassis (i think) - chewed the gearbox. so reliability is the key.
But it's all a farce if they're allowing bigger capacity, more boost, faster fuelling. They'll want a head start next
yeah true enough...
I am a happy diesel convert if for no other reason than I still get driving enjoyment from driving my car despite it being a diesel...and the 30mpg plus I get even after a hard driving session and the 40-50 I get in normal driving is icing on the cake...
I dare say now before Lemans they will be trying to limit the Audis Output...
I can't complain....I have vw's pd technology and there are many petrol powered cars that have been 'surprised' by my car..
yes it does sound pants.....
but so did my 20vt cupra to be honest I have certainly had many sportier sounding cars....
But yep I think the diesel march will continue in this country as it has in Europe and of course the ALMS win couldn't be a better advert to America a land where cheap petrol has previously made it difficult for any manufacturer to establish a diesel market..
cars like the Merc S class 320cdi and the CLS 320cdi will change views I have no doubt...there is even a diesel version of the Chrysler 300c now available some £5000 cheaper than the petrol powered (hemi) version.....
diesel is on the march..and for many people for the self same reasons I swapped....performance AND economy
I am a happy diesel convert if for no other reason than I still get driving enjoyment from driving my car despite it being a diesel...and the 30mpg plus I get even after a hard driving session and the 40-50 I get in normal driving is icing on the cake...
I dare say now before Lemans they will be trying to limit the Audis Output...
I can't complain....I have vw's pd technology and there are many petrol powered cars that have been 'surprised' by my car..
yes it does sound pants.....
but so did my 20vt cupra to be honest I have certainly had many sportier sounding cars....
But yep I think the diesel march will continue in this country as it has in Europe and of course the ALMS win couldn't be a better advert to America a land where cheap petrol has previously made it difficult for any manufacturer to establish a diesel market..
cars like the Merc S class 320cdi and the CLS 320cdi will change views I have no doubt...there is even a diesel version of the Chrysler 300c now available some £5000 cheaper than the petrol powered (hemi) version.....
diesel is on the march..and for many people for the self same reasons I swapped....performance AND economy
Was economy, economy, economy for me when I got mine ... was VERY surprised with my little car. Will DEFO be buying one again, with more potential for poke obviously.mark sheerin said:
I aggree, they would pants, but unless you get a V6, or V12.... you are not going to get "great" sounds out of anything else.
I love the Jap cars... but the screaming of their high revving engines are no better than diesel notes...
![[B)]](/forums/styles/seatcupra/oldforumsmileys/shades.gif "Cool [B)]")
I'm sorry but what a load of b0ll0x!
Lets compare, they are allowed to run 5.5l in capacity as opposed to 4l and are running 1.5bar of boost compared to 0.5bar!!
Q the torque this, torque that rubbish that gets bandied around. Hmmm 811lb of torque from a blown 5.5l in a full on race car. EVO FQ400 355lb torque from a 2.0l road car now you do the maths what has a higher output per litre.
1.5 Litre F1 engines with approx 5-600lbs of torque and that was 20 years ago.
Maybe in a few years when the rules are the same for both types of engine then we can all get excited about driving tractors round race tracks 
Lets compare, they are allowed to run 5.5l in capacity as opposed to 4l and are running 1.5bar of boost compared to 0.5bar!!
Q the torque this, torque that rubbish that gets bandied around. Hmmm 811lb of torque from a blown 5.5l in a full on race car. EVO FQ400 355lb torque from a 2.0l road car now you do the maths what has a higher output per litre.
1.5 Litre F1 engines with approx 5-600lbs of torque and that was 20 years ago.
Maybe in a few years when the rules are the same for both types of engine then we can all get excited about driving tractors round race tracks
Not sure on my maths here.... but im pretty sure the FQ340 runs at a "slightly" higher boost than 1.5bar to achive 355lb....225 said:I'm sorry but what a load of b0ll0x!
Lets compare, they are allowed to run 5.5l in capacity as opposed to 4l and are running 1.5bar of boost compared to 0.5bar!!
Q the torque this, torque that rubbish that gets bandied around. Hmmm 811lb of torque from a blown 5.5l in a full on race car. EVO FQ400 355lb torque from a 2.0l road car now you do the maths what has a higher output per litre.
1.5 Litre F1 engines with approx 5-600lbs of torque and that was 20 years ago.
Maybe in a few years when the rules are the same for both types of engine then we can all get excited about driving tractors round race tracks
Or am I about to be shot down... properly shot down?
225 said:I'm sorry but what a load of b0ll0x!
Lets compare, they are allowed to run 5.5l in capacity as opposed to 4l and are running 1.5bar of boost compared to 0.5bar!!
Q the torque this, torque that rubbish that gets bandied around. Hmmm 811lb of torque from a blown 5.5l in a full on race car. EVO FQ400 355lb torque from a 2.0l road car now you do the maths what has a higher output per litre.
1.5 Litre F1 engines with approx 5-600lbs of torque and that was 20 years ago.
Maybe in a few years when the rules are the same for both types of engine then we can all get excited about driving tractors round race tracks
There will allways be teething troubles in equivalency formulas look at the trouble we had with the ETCC spec cars and weights in the BTCC...
Sure the diesel/petrol power equivalency needs some fine tuning but the fact the other cars broke and the diesel kept going can't be disputed.
when the cars are the same on power/weight etc then the diesel will still have an advantage on longer track time between pit stops...I don't doubt it will be the way to go.
Audi won with its petrol powered car before so you must give the chassis at least 90% of the praise for this win over the engine
225 said:
that too with slightly more than 1.5 bar IIRC,,,
anyway, what I think is that power is [torque*rpm]/K now, either you raise torque or you raise rpm [better if both],,, and obviously it's easier to do this with a petrol than with a diesel,,, so that's ok, the real sport car for real men is still petrol,,, and this is 'just' because diesels can't rev,,,
on the other hand I think nobody in his rite mind can really say the R10 performance isn't impressive [for a diesel],,, and it hasn't even chewed the gearbox, and if anybody knows a bit of engineering here I think we can agree the audi techs need an applause at least for this,,,
I dont doubt it is an impressive engine but as you say Mark the rest of the car plays a far bigger part let alone the driver as well, so this new mystical diesel engine is good but not the sudden holy grail of racing some people seem to think it is.
Hmmmm, all sounds very good and that but like is said above you don't yet see F1 teams brimming up plans for a DERV V8. I suppose there would be regs to restrict it, does anyone know what this new super-diesel revs to??
Personally, whether petrol or diesel I'm always up for any technology advancements that make things better. Well done to Audi for yet another innovation (beyond Quattro, FSI etc....). The VAG group are on a roll at the moment with some of the most interesting kit coming through that I've seen for a while.
There was once a TDi Golf Mk4 rally car - whatever happened to that? Is the new Fabia rally car a diesel? Sometimes like the Volvo estates in the BTCC companies will do something to prove a point.
I don't think anyone doubts the capabilities of modern diesels, but they've come from being iron blocked fuel injected slugs (1.7SDi's), to being alu blocked turbo'd, one fuel pump per injector pumpe duse torque-monsters. Finally they got the development that was long overdue once people started buying in to the diesel ideal. Does that make them any better than petrol? Horses for courses, buy what you like.
Personally, whether petrol or diesel I'm always up for any technology advancements that make things better. Well done to Audi for yet another innovation (beyond Quattro, FSI etc....). The VAG group are on a roll at the moment with some of the most interesting kit coming through that I've seen for a while.
There was once a TDi Golf Mk4 rally car - whatever happened to that? Is the new Fabia rally car a diesel? Sometimes like the Volvo estates in the BTCC companies will do something to prove a point.
I don't think anyone doubts the capabilities of modern diesels, but they've come from being iron blocked fuel injected slugs (1.7SDi's), to being alu blocked turbo'd, one fuel pump per injector pumpe duse torque-monsters. Finally they got the development that was long overdue once people started buying in to the diesel ideal. Does that make them any better than petrol? Horses for courses, buy what you like.
sssstew said:
Thing is over the years FAR more cash has been poured into Petrol research. It's going to take a LONG time before diesel catches up.
Then we will probably have no diesel left
slimjim said:
Thing is over the years FAR more cash has been poured into Petrol research. It's going to take a LONG time before diesel catches up.
Then we will probably have no diesel left
oh, and for those who asked for airplane diesels, the thing has already been done MANY years ago,,, this is just one of the finer examples [probably the finest]
ill stand up for the petrolheads mark (well said M0rk)
impressive stuff and some serious fecking torque too
sorry guiys still gimme a V12 5.5 litre running petrol anyday and sorry 650bhp would be childs play for a petrol but in defence it is impressive and just the start i reckon for diesel
just remember next time you buy some mobil one or magantex and the price has shot up in fact any crude oil based product - diesel is getting so popular in cars nowadays and it uses more or all of the crude to make it although they save money on the street they actually put the prices of crude oil up anyway so is it just not a big swingaround money wise
if you believe BP adverts if everyone bought super unleaded we'd save the planet - i say make it the only fuel or cheaper then we all would
(well said M0rk)impressive stuff and some serious fecking torque too
sorry guiys still gimme a V12 5.5 litre running petrol anyday and sorry 650bhp would be childs play for a petrol but in defence it is impressive and just the start i reckon for diesel
just remember next time you buy some mobil one or magantex and the price has shot up in fact any crude oil based product - diesel is getting so popular in cars nowadays and it uses more or all of the crude to make it although they save money on the street they actually put the prices of crude oil up anyway
so is it just not a big swingaround money wiseif you believe BP adverts if everyone bought super unleaded we'd save the planet - i say make it the only fuel or cheaper then we all would
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Don't fall into the "Top Gear" trap of comparing a light aircraft to a washing machine or hair-dryer!Cupra_power said:
The diesel conversions that I know about are mostly in aircraft that cruise along at about 130 knots or so. No road car can match that in real-world conditions over a decent distance (even a Veyron, if you were to compare against someone who actually has a licence and some experience instead of James May, who was only a student pilot at the time).
Even my humble avgas-powered 1959 172 can out-pace most cars over a decent distance.
Fl@pper said:ill stand up for the petrolheads mark
This guy is standing up too
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6184680728064832823
Its the same on the MK4 Golf club.....the petrol boys hate the fact that I can beat their chipped 1.8T's 1/4 mile time in my diesel!!
They need to get to grips with the fact that TDI's are the business they have moved on over the years they can match their petrols for performance and we get the last laugh too with cheaper running costs and cheaper insurance.......now who's the silly one? Someone tell me what the benifits of getting the 1.8T over the TDI are? only thing I can think of is ..............you guessed it the sound which is all they harp on about Plus the smoke although mine doesn't smoke much at all! And as I said to another chap who said his 1.8T sounded 10 times better than the TDI ....fair enough but I think the 1.8T sounds pants its hardly an engine to brag about for sound! My idea of an engine note is a V6 /V8 or Screaming VTEC!
TDI Pros - Performance,Economy,Insurance,reliability,longativity....TDI can handle mileage better than the Petrol 1.8T, has tonns more torque
TDI Cons - Sound and a little smoke Hmmm
1.8T Pros over TDI - uuuummmmmmm........oh it sounds better and doesnt smoke as much
1.8T Cons - all of the the TDI's Pros the TDI has it matched or beaten in all areas!!
So when you say you do the Maths the Maths is there for all to see? Come on Petrol boys wake up when are you going to see which the better car is!
I'll end by saying why do you think TDI's are more expensive than the petrols! says it all really!!
An 02 Golf GTI 1.8T With 50k mileage will fetch about 6-8k
An 02 Golf GT TDI PD 150 with 50k Mileage will fetch about 9-10k
And whats more of an acheivement is we couldnt even have a TDI VS PETROL Thread years ago it wouldn't have been heared of so a credit to Diesel evolution!
And before everyone thinks im a one eyed one view TDI obsessive! I have owned a 300 bhp Nissan 200sx, 306 GTI-6 Mazda MX6 2.5v6 and prefer my current Golf TDI over all of the above!
I was never in the Market for a TDI I wanted a Civic Type R but after driving my tuned TDI the Civic Type R was a little slow and boaring!
I have since been to santapod and beaten 2 different Type R's over the 1/4 mile ! TDI's really are the business!
They need to get to grips with the fact that TDI's are the business they have moved on over the years they can match their petrols for performance and we get the last laugh too with cheaper running costs and cheaper insurance.......now who's the silly one? Someone tell me what the benifits of getting the 1.8T over the TDI are? only thing I can think of is ..............you guessed it the sound which is all they harp on about Plus the smoke although mine doesn't smoke much at all! And as I said to another chap who said his 1.8T sounded 10 times better than the TDI ....fair enough but I think the 1.8T sounds pants its hardly an engine to brag about for sound! My idea of an engine note is a V6 /V8 or Screaming VTEC!
TDI Pros - Performance,Economy,Insurance,reliability,longativity....TDI can handle mileage better than the Petrol 1.8T, has tonns more torque
TDI Cons - Sound and a little smoke Hmmm
1.8T Pros over TDI - uuuummmmmmm........oh it sounds better and doesnt smoke as much
1.8T Cons - all of the the TDI's Pros the TDI has it matched or beaten in all areas!!
So when you say you do the Maths the Maths is there for all to see? Come on Petrol boys wake up when are you going to see which the better car is!
I'll end by saying why do you think TDI's are more expensive than the petrols! says it all really!!
An 02 Golf GTI 1.8T With 50k mileage will fetch about 6-8k
An 02 Golf GT TDI PD 150 with 50k Mileage will fetch about 9-10k
And whats more of an acheivement is we couldnt even have a TDI VS PETROL Thread years ago it wouldn't have been heared of so a credit to Diesel evolution!
And before everyone thinks im a one eyed one view TDI obsessive! I have owned a 300 bhp Nissan 200sx, 306 GTI-6 Mazda MX6 2.5v6 and prefer my current Golf TDI over all of the above!
I was never in the Market for a TDI I wanted a Civic Type R but after driving my tuned TDI the Civic Type R was a little slow and boaring!
I have since been to santapod and beaten 2 different Type R's over the 1/4 mile ! TDI's really are the business!
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