SCN are visiting SEAT UK to see the new LCR

[Al]

Would a remap be more or less appealing if it was £500 plus £1000 warranty protection policy added on top?

Some may say more appealing for the peace of mind, some will say nah i'll just get joe bloggs to do it for £500.

Life is full of choices and risk assessments

Yep, I know exactly where you are coming from, but the thing is, you pay more for a marque approved map than you would for a Joe Bloggs map. For example a map can be done by BMW on the 335i. It will end up less powerful than a map from Joe Bloggs, but if it goes bang, you are covered. Same for Subaru Pro Drive kits, Hartge tuning kits on SAAB's and forthcoming Ford tuning kits on the Focus RS to name a few.

Personally, I would sooner have a manufacturer approved map and parts. For sure SEAT/VAG are not in the business of modifications, but they are missing out on a huge potential market and putting owners in to the chance situation you highlighted above as a result.

 

[chris285]

Yep, I know exactly where you are coming from, but the thing is, you pay more for a marque approved map than you would for a Joe Bloggs map. For example a map can be done by BMW on the 335i. It will end up less powerful than a map from Joe Bloggs, but if it goes bang, you are covered. Same for Subaru Pro Drive kits, Hartge tuning kits on SAAB's and forthcoming Ford tuning kits on the Focus RS to name a few.

Personally, I would sooner have a manufacturer approved map and parts. For sure SEAT/VAG are not in the business of modifications, but they are missing out on a huge potential market and putting owners in to the chance situation you highlighted above as a result.

have to agree there that they should look at this, but again i can see where SEAT are coming from as its changing the car from standard which the parts are not gauranteed for and its their cost in that situation

one suggestion from me personally would maybe some kind of tuning partnership with packages offered along the lines of remaps etc, i beleive that other marques do this kind of thing already but its only specific dealers which have these sport sections which may be a suggestion. Having a number of dealers around the country where owners such as on here can go and get approved parts fitted and not invalidate the warranty, i wouldn't mind travelling a reasonable distance for that kind of service

however from the sound of it its not just a SEAT UK decision but the VAG UK group as a whole, so its possible their hands are tied in that respect but it may be a suggestion which can be put forwards as a group policy so it covers all VAG marques

personally i like the sleeper look, however my issue with the mk2 is that the models all look similar and unlike the mk1 there is not enough styling differences between the models to make them stand out. i would have gone for the k1 type of styling on the cupra r myself, but they have to appeal to a range of prospective buyers and it may be they felt being conservative is a better business choice

 

[ZBOYD]

Appreciate the sentiment of what you are saying Mark.

I think one of the key issues for the current Mk2 LCR is that the old one was a product which really wore its differentiators on it's skin. It didn't have the soft edged starfish alloys, it had bold Brembo's, a fully differentiated bodykit, a black rooflining, a different steering wheel. In some cases it was a bit poverty spec against some of the electric leather seated Cupra's, but it had what it needed where it mattered, and at a very stomachable price!

These days everything is an add on. Want Sports brakes on a near on £20k Boc, you pay for them. They offer you leather seats on the R, then you can't even heat them if you want to. The options packs seem badly thought out, disparate and then again really lacking against other manufacturer offerings (look at Fiat/Abarth, Alfa, Vauxhall, Ford, BMW, Honda, Nissan all who offer a myriad of pay options, performance packs, decals - urghh, all of which are warrantied by factory). VAG are so far behind in this area I think it's a serious oversight in their artillery of customer offering, as you well know, many of us have the money to spend and take £1000's of it elsewhere when you could argue they need it most. I again appreciate SEAT's hands are tightly tied here, so lets hope the VAG brigade awaken from their slumber sooner rather than later.

I'm pleased its a good car as if it wasn't it could potentially end up a 'White Elephant' in the VAG range at its price point. There are still many who see SEAT as an underdog, and will be pulled across to the Golf or the Scirocco at the ticket prices (ex demo) as they won't want the perceived cheaper marque (which we all know is a shame as it's only really the badge that is the difference).

This car is ultimately going to be bought by enthusiasts, and people on sites like this set the tone. If I was sat at SEAT HQ and was listening to the overbearing feedback from the core fans, I'd be taking some serious notes. I was seriously considering buying this car, but I feel I have to take the vote of conscientiously objecting because if I buy one, the suits at VAG will believe what they served up (somewhat half baked) is hitting the spot, and that's not the message I want to send to them.

My aim isn't to be SEAT's protection here, more of a devils advocate, they can work out the good and bad for themselves to a greater degree. I am critical too and support your criticism totally, but you could say they are as much a victim to VAG as we feel we are.

But there is someone up above SEAT juggling all these products and their brands and SEAT have to play along as best they can. From VAG's point of view I think they use the brands as a halo, steering people towards their other brands. You owned a SEAT, some could say it steered you towards an S3. From VAG suits point of view your still a customer. Maybe the only way to object is to buy from outside the group.

SEAT and VW from what we could garner appear to be squeezed quite hard on pricing with very similar products on offer, and this is bringing them closer in the marketplace. Skoda have managed to carve out a good market for themselves. Audi however is the dominate force, they are a monster in relation to the other 3 brands and are riding the crest of a wave at the moment. Audi is so dominant a force at the moment that its the golden balls of the UK business, and their marketing and product budgets are practically a license to print money.

SEAT UK also have to work closely with Martorell, the factory has its markets all over Europe and other parts of the World too. Getting what we want from a company that sells volume to mostly LHD customers is a obstacle too.

The defining aspect is that were pretty unique in the UK, we love hot hatches we love to modify them, and though we see some of this in Europe. The powerful petrol hot hatch really is a British phenomenon and only because SEAT know this fact was the reason that SEAT UK were able to convince them to make alterations to the RHD car.

No other market outside the UK got a say on the matter, that in itself shows that our custom has an influence. It appears that they are becoming more receptive to the changing opinions of their customers in this country.

As I've said several times already, the Mk2 is a marmite car. I like it, others don't. But a manufacturer won't change a design which is as good as at the end of its production run just to sell a few extra. The R&D costs alone would be astronomical to make large changes to tooling etc.

On our Analytics info for this forum, the 2 top content links currently point to the Leon Mk1 at 72000+ page views and Leon Mk2 at 70000+ page views That fact alone shows that they are very equally popular amongst those enthusiasts using the forum.

I don't know if this latest R generation will be as popular as the old one, very likely not. But the Mk2 hasn't been a poor seller for SEAT.

Personally I am thinking much less about the present, but I am excited and hopeful about the future.

 

[ZBOYD]

Yep, I know exactly where you are coming from, but the thing is, you pay more for a marque approved map than you would for a Joe Bloggs map. For example a map can be done by BMW on the 335i. It will end up less powerful than a map from Joe Bloggs, but if it goes bang, you are covered. Same for Subaru Pro Drive kits, Hartge tuning kits on SAAB's and forthcoming Ford tuning kits on the Focus RS to name a few.

Personally, I would sooner have a manufacturer approved map and parts. For sure SEAT/VAG are not in the business of modifications, but they are missing out on a huge potential market and putting owners in to the chance situation you highlighted above as a result.

Those competitors are building in longevity and ensuring the likelihood of them having to warrant the parts. But that reduces the potential gains and still increases the costs involved for the end consumer as you say. In comparison to the competition SEAT believe they are offering solid performance anyway, especially if you compare that to the EVO test where the RS couldn't even make its advertised power.

Will this future cup-style RS really make its potential advertised figures or is this another flight of fancy from the big blue oval. If I bought a 300hp car I'd like it to make 300hp or more. I would feel a bit ripped off to be honest if I didn't get what I thought I was getting.

As I said above maybe the only way to truly object is to buy one of those other brands to send a message. As moving from one VAG brand to another doesn't have any affect on the suits at VAG.

I always wonder if the grass is greener though.

 

[TimJK]

I saw that LCR at MK NLC the other week, in the flesh its alot nicer than pictures show. However i still prefer my MK1 LCR, and if buying a newer car would go Roc R or s3.

 

[warren_cox]

All very fair comments Mark, and glad you are here to provide the SCN/ZBOYD view with a factual balance of Seat UK view.

Having spent £32k on a VAG car which is a visually watered down version of it's original; then having had to spend over £3k on mods to make it the car it feels it should have been, I have first hand experience of how big prices drive enormous expectations that often fail to deliver what you expect for the outlay.

Even though I have a quick and potent car, Audi's service is mediocre and their technical ability is worse, so actually this defends the point that maybe mods are a step too far for the brand right now.

A bigger issue for all VAG marques is learning to deliver a customer experience that matches the new price tags first. Walk before they can run!

 

[IainW]

I like that car. I've always liked the Leon since I first saw the concept back in 2004/05 and I'm not really too keen on in-yer-face cars, so this one gets my thumbs up.

Looking forward to reading the full test drive review, I do hope you took full advantage of those great country roads around there, as well as the MK dual carriageways, which I actually like.

 

[ZBOYD]

I saw that LCR at MK NLC the other week, in the flesh its alot nicer than pictures show. However i still prefer my MK1 LCR, and if buying a newer car would go Roc R or s3.

Which again substantiates my thinking of what the suits at VAG are thinking. Drive one customer away from one brands product but snatch them up into another more profit making one still within the group.

A risky approach because they can always go to the competition. I think they need to consider embracing an enthusiast element though, people who like a product and try and stick with that product.

The internet is really starting to be hugely influential with people and allows people who 10 years ago couldn't network and voice opinions in the same way as we do now. Manufacturers really need to wake up, SEAT UK to be fair to them are one of those that are beginning to get it.

 

[LeonFR07DSG]

I think you have hit on a major point there warren... the customer service...

I had a civic type r and all i can say about the aftersales and customer service from Honda was that it was exceptional....They were so helpful and willing to help me when i had a problem or if i thought there was a problem. If the car went in for any reason watsoever they made sure when i got it back it was clean and looking good...

Seat have never done this for me. They havnt been helpful. They have never cleaned my car. They never call me back when i have enquired about booking my car in or to spend money on an extra like my wheels etc. They dont talk to me as if i am an adult and make me feel uncomfortable (like im an idiot). For instance i was told there wasnt a fuse for the interior lights... i would have to book the car in... that was the "head techy".

The main problem for me isnt the car/s, its the service i have had after and i think that MANY of the Seat dealerships out there have a lot to improve on. I dont know if Audi are any better, but my mums also had problems with VW. V helpful when buying the car... then after they really dont seem to care...

Z did you talk to them about there dealership service? I know the primary objective was the R...

 

[warren_cox]

I dont know if Audi are any better, but my mums also had problems with VW. V helpful when buying the car... then after they really dont seem to care.

Audi aren't even charming when they sell you a car.
They rank amongst the most unpleasant, condescending and flippant brands I have had the misfortune to encounter. They make my flesh crawl, and I only forgive them from the perspective I needed someone to sell me a car. I am not alone, so they should ride their recent wave of success and enjoy it whilst it lasts.

They hate enthusiasts as they have expectations beyond driving a car that will make it from A to B. They should be ashamed. At least SEAT don't have the gall to charge £125+VAT an hour.

SEATi give people like me a belief that once I can bare it no more there is somewhere innovative to return to.

 

[LeonFR07DSG]

Audi aren't even charming when they sell you a car.
They rank amongst the most unpleasant, condescending and flippant brands I have had the misfortune to encounter. They make my flesh crawl, and I only forgive them from the perspective I needed someone to sell me a car. I am not alone, so they should ride their recent wave of success and enjoy it whilst it lasts.

They hate enthusiasts as they have expectations beyond driving a car that will make it from A to B. They should be ashamed. At least SEAT don't have the gall to charge £125+VAT an hour.

SEATi give people like me a belief that once I can bare it no more there is somewhere innovative to return to.

Thats a shame to hear. I mean you would of thought that the massive amount of customers they get they would want to hang onto and treat well... but no, they couldnt care less...

Shame the new honda civic type r was such a poor car to drive otherwise i would of bought that over my seat....Spose if i hadnt rolled my old type r i might still have that anyway lol... damn diesel... slippery stuff

 

[Al]

All interesting stuff, but it does bode the question, what would you have if you sold up? I would go for the Ford in a flash if I could get away with a 3 door car even if it was down a few dobbins from claimed figures, based on appearance, guaranteed residuals as a result of the RS badge, superior chassis and drivetrain, all of which are ahead of the competition apart from perhaps the lovely new Renault Megane which would be my second choice.

With my need for five doors, I am in a position where I need to wait and see what new offerings become available as time progresses.

I am concerned about the price these cars are being listed at now though considering the Leon Cupra R, Ford Focus RS and Golf GTi etc are all booking in at £25k+ in a recession period. These inflated prices plus the forthcoming showroom tax and increasing fuel prices will surely have an effect on the numbers sold. I am of the opinion that some people may end up downsizing as a result, and that things like the Bocenagra will become more popular.

 

[Dude]

Audi aren't even charming when they sell you a car.
They rank amongst the most unpleasant, condescending and flippant brands I have had the misfortune to encounter. They make my flesh crawl, and I only forgive them from the perspective I needed someone to sell me a car. I am not alone, so they should ride their recent wave of success and enjoy it whilst it lasts.

They hate enthusiasts as they have expectations beyond driving a car that will make it from A to B. They should be ashamed. At least SEAT don't have the gall to charge £125+VAT an hour.

SEATi give people like me a belief that once I can bare it no more there is somewhere innovative to return to.

Could not agree with you more!

This is partly the reason why I’m getting rid of my TT, and needing 5 doors.
A so called service on Thursday, which when I looked at it consisted of; Oil and filter + pollen filter… £317.
Wonder how long it actually took them.

That said, they make desirable models that pull people into the showrooms - So the sales person feels they are doing you the favour by providing the car.

Have to say, going through the motions of the purchase with Seat was allot more pleasant.

 

[robdf2]

Audi aren't even charming when they sell you a car.
They rank amongst the most unpleasant, condescending and flippant brands I have had the misfortune to encounter. They make my flesh crawl, and I only forgive them from the perspective I needed someone to sell me a car. I am not alone, so they should ride their recent wave of success and enjoy it whilst it lasts.

They hate enthusiasts as they have expectations beyond driving a car that will make it from A to B. They should be ashamed. At least SEAT don't have the gall to charge £125+VAT an hour.

SEATi give people like me a belief that once I can bare it no more there is somewhere innovative to return to.

Warren , SEAT are no better , with all the dealings i have had with them(and its a lot) they are useless , unless they can plug and it tells them what to do they are stumped and they hate enthusiats , try telling a SEAT master tech that there is a repair bulletin out for something on your car and you might as well look like shrek and talk donkey speak.

If you can find a good dealership they are worth a fortune.


In a 25k performance hatch market the competion is too stiff for the R , firstly the standard Cupra kills it dead , backed up by the RS 250 megane (which i have to say is gorgeous compared to the R) then we all know the focus RS is in the melting point as well , then the second hand market comes into play as well nearly new S3 ? Audi TT? ect ect , so unless you no nothing about the SEAT brand i cant see someone walking into a dealership and buying an R , especially if the FR , Cupra and Cupra R are all in the same showroom.
Its nice talking and being loyal to a brand but what are they really doing for the enthusiast at the end of the day? recyling parts from other VW brands and outpricing them in a very compact and price dependant market.
As horace says would you part ex for £11k and fork out another £14k for the spec and knowing that you will come across another cupra which has been modded to higher spec or more and cost a fraction of the price for the same thing?
If i was lucky enough to have £25k to spend on a new car i know where it would be going and it wouldnt be in the vag groups pockets.

 

[TimJK]

I dont like all this anti Audi talk, I'm an audi Tech and when someone tries to tell you they know best and even ask for the bits back just so they can see that was the problem sometimes just pisses you off that you have to do that. When the majority of the time they do not know best, If they think they know, why didn't they repair it in the first place?

 

[wild willy]

I dont like all this anti Audi talk, I'm an audi Tech and when someone tries to tell you they know best and even ask for the bits back just so they can see that was the problem sometimes just pisses you off that you have to do that. When the majority of the time they do not know best, If they think they know, why didn't they repair it in the first place?

because they would invalidate their warranty allow Audi to spray them with even more shite customer service.
I visit Sinclairs Audi Swansea on occassions and thier attitude sucks frankly. If i were a multimillionaire i wouldn't buy a car off them, sorry mate. I'm sure your ace at your job and respect customers but from my experience your an exception when dealing with audi.

 

[warren_cox]

I dont like all this anti Audi talk, I'm an audi Tech and when someone tries to tell you they know best and even ask for the bits back just so they can see that was the problem sometimes just pisses you off that you have to do that. When the majority of the time they do not know best, If they think they know, why didn't they repair it in the first place?

TimJK, I'm not having a pop at you personally (unless you are the master tech at Newbury Audi ), but I have had such simplistic faults that the 'Master Techs' have failed to diagnose. But then somehow an independent who charges half the price and doesn't necessarily have all the 'specialist equipment' which supposedly drives the high costs can diagnose in 10 minutes flat.

Charging astronomical prices is very nice, as long as you're on your game, and when I have to pay Audi, then go somewhere else and pay them to get my issues fixed it's not funny, convenient or confidence inspiring. I don't want the parts back to check, I just want a car that runs. When I have to fault diagnose my own car because Audi have it for 6 days and can't find a dodgy spark plug, or tell me clutches only slip in 1st and 2nd gear, it is the straw the breaks the camels back).

If you read some of the forums (AudiSport / RS246 / VAGOC etc..) they aren't heaping praise on Audi franchises, and rely HEAVILY on independents to support the ownership experience due to a lack of confidence in many cases.

Charge £27k+ for a car, then £125+VAT an hour for labour and the customer will want premium customer service, response, and attitude, and seeing (going back on topic) this is an area SEAT are straying into, they had better be ready to follow up the prices with the service. I accept all the factors which are driving prices up, but then I see our local SEAT dealer go out of business last year ahead of cars like the LCR2 coming. I don't think it would have saved them either.

Once scrappage goes I'm fascinated to see where we go.

I'm also interested to read the one 'objective' LCR2 review BY enthusiasts FOR enthusiasts that we are going to get on SCN, as the rags will probably give SEAT the unfair usual stereotypes, so waiting in anticipation.

 

[Feel]

When's the review up, and when's the LCR2 on sale?

Won't be able to fit a towing bracket for the caravan, but I might still be interested...

 

[ZBOYD]

When's the review up, and when's the LCR2 on sale?

Won't be able to fit a towing bracket for the caravan, but I might still be interested...

Next couple of days, we have our jobs to do in between time, and only have the evenings. Last night was dominated by the Geneva news. But we'll get something up in a few days.

Due in showrooms around May. Most UK dealerships should be supplied a demo car.

 

[RickyD1975]

That is how I feel also although what Mark said was true also. The Leon I bought was boring and bland when I bought it, and I changed that with skirts and spoiler. However, as you said, the LCR should really be more than a bit different, and this one really isnt other than the optional roof spoiler, and "bespoke R spec" diffuser and twin exhausts, going by the pictures above.

I will be very interested to see what the lads have to say in their report, but more than anything, I want to know if Syphon and Z, as owners 3 year old Leon Cupra 2.0T's like me, Igor, ChrisBoyle, RickyD etc, now feel the urge to go ahead and trade in their out of warranty Cupras for approx £11000 and fork out the £14000 necessary to have one of these parked outside their house instead. I have already made my decision and opted to save my cash, but I am one person with one opinion....

I love the rear of that Cupra R, although I do like my Huge Oval Milltek tail piece.

I certainly wouldn't trade in my MK2 Cupra for £11k and fork out another £14K for the Cupra R. Seat have priced the car in a different league now and that's daft. They pushed the price up with the over priced Golf R.

I saw another Focus RS on Sunday in the flesh and it is a looker and they certainly get a lot of attention. If I replaced my Cupra it would have to be a 4 or 5 door due to having a Daughter now.

I was talking to a guy with an E90 M3 V8 last night at the petrol station....what a noise they make They are coming down in price, although I've heard that the service costs are very high.