RR graph is it running "LEAN* - YES! - now with logs

[super_electric]

After taken my car on the rolling road the guy there said its running lean and that’s why its down on bhp… as my knowledge is not great anyone’s input would be great, the torque and boost look and feel ok tho just down on bhp and little worried about it running lean etc

first rolling road when the car was standard

And the new one done on saterday

 

[Damoegan]

Yep, thats lean till 4k than it drops to being rich.
Also something funny going on with the boost.It should be tailing off after it reaches its peak boost, not stil climbing like that.

You need to get vag-com on it mate and do some logging.

Try PM'ing Dave (DPJ) as he'd not far from you.

 

[lordgibbness]

206bhp at the wheels isn't that bad. The rolling road you are using is assuming different losses for each run. If you look at run 2 compared to run 1: your wheel hp is lower - yet your fly hp is higer.

So lets instead assume you have 15% losses. Based on your 206 whp figure your fly would be 243bhp. If you were to assume 20% losses then your fly would be 258bhp. It all depends how their calculating the losses (and you'll never know what they really are).

 

[DPJ]

206bhp at the wheels isn't that bad. The rolling road you are using is assuming different losses for each run. If you look at run 2 compared to run 1: your wheel hp is lower - yet your fly hp is higer.

.

As the gearbox oil heats up with subsequent runs, transmission losses will be lessen.

 

[Avant4me]

Thought when power was in bhp and torque in lb/ft, that the two graphs were supposed to cross at 5250 rpm. Your appear to cross at 4500 making the runs unbelievable.

 

[lordgibbness]

Yeah will always cross at 5252rpm. Either something wrong with the rolling road or the revs are being reported incorrectly from the ECU.

 

[jonathanp]

Thought when power was in bhp and torque in lb/ft, that the two graphs were supposed to cross at 5250 rpm. Your appear to cross at 4500 making the runs unbelievable.

graphs will only cross at 5252 if the scaling is the same on both sides and its lb/ft (which it is).

Lookup the figures for both lb/ft and bhp at 5252 and they do match

 

[PhilW]

206bhp at the wheels isn't that bad. The rolling road you are using is assuming different losses for each run. If you look at run 2 compared to run 1: your wheel hp is lower - yet your fly hp is higer.

So lets instead assume you have 15% losses. Based on your 206 whp figure your fly would be 243bhp. If you were to assume 20% losses then your fly would be 258bhp. It all depends how their calculating the losses (and you'll never know what they really are).

Coast down and whp will be different for each as the car warms up.

That looks exactly like my graph from the weekend.

LCR or Leon Cupra?

 

[Damoegan]

I'd say LC with those numbers, Phil.

 

[PhilW]

Yeah i thought that, seems about right to me then.

 

[Damoegan]

Yea, the numbers look fine but the boost and AFR graph dont look good.

Nice boost spike too

 

[lordgibbness]

graphs will only cross at 5252 if the scaling is the same on both sides and its lb/ft (which it is).

Lookup the figures for both lb/ft and bhp at 5252 and they do match

Oh yeah didn't notice the scales were different

 

[PhilW]

Tailpipe sniffer? Could have an exhaust leak causing it to read 'leaner'?

Boost figures on a k03s look great to me, if not a bit optimistic.

I actually like the way Dastek rollers calculate figures unlike DD rollers which are calculated on known losses, which are fixed.

 

[ibizacupra]

Tailpipe sniffer? Could have an exhaust leak causing it to read 'leaner'?

Boost figures on a k03s look great to me, if not a bit optimistic.

I actually like the way Dastek rollers calculate figures unlike DD rollers which are calculated on known losses, which are fixed.

I prefer a DD fixed approach on cars which are essentially the same.. (g'box, wheels etc etc)
atw is the guide. coastdown is'nt desperately accurate and not comparitive across different makes of dynos as they all seem to process the results differently.

DD can be run in coastdown mode apparently to determin a loss figure, but it is not its normal mode of operation. they prefer to use the shootout mode to give consistent across all DD rollers worldwide, equivalent & comparible numbers.

I have had in depth talks about this aspect before I part with my hard earned ££.

confirmation of this apparent afr leanness via logging vagcom during a run, or OBD logging would confirm what the car thiks is going on afr wise.

if genuinely lean, suspect maf sensor first

 

[PhilW]

Big assumption that all cars have the same loss tho isnt it? And what is that figure? I guess at least with the dastek setup you have an actual whp figure not a calculated one, probably why flywheel figures above vary so much compared to whp.

Decided which rollers to go for yet then bill? Heard theres more channels for loggin on Dastek as well.

 

[lordgibbness]

I guess at least with the dastek setup you have an actual whp figure not a calculated one

All RRs should provide the actual whp figure. Although technically speaking they are actually extrapolated from the wheel-torque figure measured on the dyno

 

[super_electric]

Yep, thats lean till 4k than it drops to being rich.
Also something funny going on with the boost.It should be tailing off after it reaches its peak boost, not stil climbing like that.

You need to get vag-com on it mate and do some logging.

Try PM'ing Dave (DPJ) as he'd not far from you.

Thanks for the reply, Yep that’s just about what I was told,just good to get other peoples opinion he did not mention anything about the boost tho? Could that be a problem?

 

[super_electric]

206bhp at the wheels isn't that bad. The rolling road you are using is assuming different losses for each run. If you look at run 2 compared to run 1: your wheel hp is lower - yet your fly hp is higer.

So lets instead assume you have 15% losses. Based on your 206 whp figure your fly would be 243bhp. If you were to assume 20% losses then your fly would be 258bhp. It all depends how their calculating the losses (and you'll never know what they really are).

Well it’s down on power and a 29.4bhp increase is not great 250+ was hoping for from the stage one and the little extra stuff on the car but driving it you would not have guessed it does pick up real well

 

[ibizacupra]

Big assumption that all cars have the same loss tho isnt it? And what is that figure? I guess at least with the dastek setup you have an actual whp figure not a calculated one, probably why flywheel figures above vary so much compared to whp.

Decided which rollers to go for yet then bill? Heard theres more channels for loggin on Dastek as well.

I dont like the control side of Dastek personally, nor their price.
DD is most likely trial being acceptable of course which I will arrange shortly.

whp is a measurement from DD also.. depends on which mode you decide to run in.

There are widly differing coastdown losses across same make vehicles, which is measurement error. wheels tyres etc etc pressures on coat down are not the same losses as when powering.. g'box alone is not engaged for one.
whp + a known fixed figure is more representative of power imho.
determining the fixed figure can be done on a DD according to their UK guru who I have spoken to, as I put the same arguement to him using my own ibiza as a comparison. It does not run std gearbox so std coastdown adders could not apply. It is some work to do to determin the coast down actual losses, but it can be done. (and will be on mine when I get one)
for a mostly stock ibiza/leon etc etc the DD way is as good as any, and if anything does'nt add to variables into the equation, just the one.

 

[ibizacupra]

Well it’s down on power and a 29.4bhp increase is not great 250+ was hoping for from the stage one and the little extra stuff on the car but driving it you would not have guessed it does pick up real well

is this LCR or LC?