Newbie looking for pd150 tuning improvements

[Andrewcupra TDI]

i leadfoot it quite a bit and so smoke but still plenty of poke !!

yes the hangers are roughly a £100 - £150 when i looked but as its same pads as what we have already i didnt see the need to spend on hangers and new disks aswell

ended up buying drilled and grooved 288mm disks and genuine pads and theres some difference than what it was before the change !

egr delete is not that hard just needs the eml light mapped out to stop the fault code throwing a light

i actually have one in the spare room , just never got round to fitting it lol

 

[jase750]

At the end of the day there will always be the pro's and con's for both.
The LCR has more than Just Brembo's and 18" wheels over a std cupra petrol or diesel.
a std cupra diesel is a brilliant car and will respond well to all the usual avenues of tuning.
but as it has been said before it's can be made as fast as your pockets will allow ! how fast do you want to go ?
personally I'd re map it and leave it at that.

 

[dholdi]

£400 for brakes? brembo callipers will cost you that alone, you then need the carriers and new pads and discs. your £400 is gonna be more like £700-800.

I paid £300 for Brembo's and £100 for Lcr rears both complete with carriers and pads.

I didnt factor the disc and pad price in as I needed new ones for the standard setup anyway.

 

[d1n93r]

And if 195 bhp isn't enough for you. Speak to torque tronix. They do an extra package. 232bhp and an extra 120 lbs ft

 

[Andrewcupra TDI]

if yer pockets are deep you can achieve way more than that somewhere along the lines of 500ibs/ft torque and around 300bhp

theres a few on here , but that means race nozzles , hybrid turbo etc etc , not really what the op is planning at (but the options are there

i got to say my cupra derv had really good handling set up as standard , it was only that a spring had snapped and the fact i wanted it to sit a little lower that i went for a full weitec suspenion kit but it has improved the handling even more


OP personally i dont regret the things ive done to mine and still keeping it real in terms of a daily drive + the family in mind

the suspension is not too stiff that it shakes kidneys
my full decat exhaust is just as quiet as a standard exhaust
S3 strut braces just helps handling
hids improve vision etc etc
ive not mapped mine but theres a hint it may have been done maybe by the owner before last it only boosted just over standard on the RR i took it to and the owner said its not confirmation its been done or not ??

and the other bits and bobs ive done has no affect at all so all in all i use my car much more than the mrs uses her mk5 golf

if you want just a bit of extra power then get a generic map off a company and not get one with an aggressive spike as that will kill clutches get a smooth progressive map that puts power down without having to rip you in the seat and wheelspin flat out etc

 

[Leon2012]

To those talking about black smoke, that is the sign of a bad map/tune, as professional tuners (in USA, for example) hate black smoke and have the SKILLS to stop it happening.

You are overboosting or overfuelling in some way for black smoke to happen, and unless you're teetering on the very edge of advanced diesel tuning, then you should never have a problem with it.....

 

[MarkWales]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm - No Smoke No Poke!

 

[JamesL]

To those talking about black smoke, that is the sign of a bad map/tune, as professional tuners (in USA, for example) hate black smoke and have the SKILLS to stop it happening.

You are overboosting or overfuelling in some way for black smoke to happen, and unless you're teetering on the very edge of advanced diesel tuning, then you should never have a problem with it.....

So you think that all those smoky VAG TDI's you see all over the shop have ALL been mapped by some dodgy tuner? I think not - there are stacks of completely standard derv units out there who smoke like a chimney. Unless VAG is included in your list of bad mappers?

 

[JamesL]

To those talking about black smoke, that is the sign of a bad map/tune, as professional tuners (in USA, for example) hate black smoke and have the SKILLS to stop it happening.

You are overboosting or overfuelling in some way for black smoke to happen, and unless you're teetering on the very edge of advanced diesel tuning, then you should never have a problem with it.....

So you think that all those smoky VAG TDI's you see all over the shop have ALL been mapped by some dodgy tuner? I think not - there are stacks of completely standard derv units out there who smoke like a chimney. Unless VAG is included in your list of bad mappers?

 

[Leon2012]

I've read a lot of threads about the US/Canadian tuners on tdiclub, and in every build they always aim for Zero smoke. They get better power figures than UK tuners and no smoke or a light haze.

Black smoke IS the sign of a bad map.

My choice for my next map is Mark at Malone Tuning, and have also considered Rocketchip. How many people on here are running their maps/tunes? A search reveals only 2 other threads in the history of Seatcupra.net about people using Malone Tuning and Rocketchip: jasengine and Dezeze

Dezeze said this about a car he bought with a Malone tune (plus other mods of course, but it's the tune/map that really makes the difference) -

"the performance, for a diesel, is bewildering!"

( http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3514061 )

And that was a 2000 Leon SE!

Yet those two tuners would give you a better driving and more powerful car than ANY of the UK tuners. What's even better is that you get subsequent remaps at about £50 (need to check this), and after you get a FlashZilla device to plug into your comms port, everything is done remote by email. You send logs to him and he tweaks it, until no smoke or a light haze at most, and the power and torque you want. He also does dynamic idle and other nice add-ons.

 

[Muttley]

I would be cautious about comparing remaps other than at a rolling road day, on the same rollers. It is natural for anyone to be impressed with the change in performance delivered by a competent remap, but even quoting actual figures from one dyno is open to question. From what I've read on here, it isn't unknown for tuners to have slightly optimistic dynos and I've also no idea how you calibrate a dyno.

Saying that black smoke is the sign of a bad map rather assumes that black smoke is undesirable. I've not done any deep investigation, but there are quite a few posters who relish their ability to leave behind other sporty cars in a cloud of smoke. So it is possible that some tuners write the map with a high smoke limit, as a sign of the modification.

All other things being equal, a map that goes into the smoking region will deliver a higher top-end power figure than one that doesn't. Horrible fuel economy though.

 

[Leon2012]

I would be cautious about comparing remaps other than at a rolling road day, on the same rollers. It is natural for anyone to be impressed with the change in performance delivered by a competent remap, but even quoting actual figures from one dyno is open to question. From what I've read on here, it isn't unknown for tuners to have slightly optimistic dynos and I've also no idea how you calibrate a dyno.

Saying that black smoke is the sign of a bad map rather assumes that black smoke is undesirable. I've not done any deep investigation, but there are quite a few posters who relish their ability to leave behind other sporty cars in a cloud of smoke. So it is possible that some tuners write the map with a high smoke limit, as a sign of the modification.

All other things being equal, a map that goes into the smoking region will deliver a higher top-end power figure than one that doesn't. Horrible fuel economy though.

Hi Muttley,

The reason for black smoke is not "a sign of modification": it's unburnt fuel which the tuner/mapper can't control, because they lack the skills to reduce it; I'd much rather have that fuel turned into useable power, and/or not wasted.

People like Mark at Malone Tuning and Rocketchip know ECU maps like the back of their hands, and can fine tune them to do whatever they want.

I've no doubt that if anyone (else) here were to try these tuners/mappers from North America, then they would be extremely impressed and pleased with the result, as all the reports are which I hear about on tdiclub.com .... so much so that they would never go back to UK tuners...

 

[BigV]

1st result,
you are £500-1000 out of pocket at the very least least by the time you have bought a more expensive diesel model , then you are another at least £500 out of pocket by the time you have fitted uprated brakes and a remap and you are still slower and worse off handling than an LCR. also not as good looking,smaller alloys, not as nice interior and the sound of a diesel. all for £1500 more

2nd result,
when his clutch starts slipping due to the added torque the £100 per year less tax will be soon evaporated, insurance won't be much more on an lcr by the time you have declared your mods and the insurance company work out it is nearly as fast as an lcr. with the fuel i'll agree that a diesel uses less but 35mpg is attainable on a long run in an lcr which isn't the end of the world.

3rd result

It just seems more logical with lcr prices so low at the moment to go out and buy a lcr than to buy a diesel a which is more expensive in the first place then to throw a heap of money at it trying to get it to go and stop like an lcr. just except to pay a bit more in fuel, tax and insurance for a better car apart from fuel economy( but the OP doesn't seem to mind throwing £100s on brakes remaps and panel filters so i can't really see him caring about having to spend a bit more on fuel)

think with prices so low on lcr's I recon i could go out and buy a decent lcr then remap it to around 260bhp for cheaper than you can buy a standard 150tdi on a similar mileage and plate. also when the car comes for sale you you'll never recuperate all the money spent on doing a diesel up but you have half a chance by just remapping a petrol.

^This.

There is a lot of logic fail when it comes to turbo diesels at the moment, I fell for it myself.

EVERYONE wants a diesel because they do 40+mpg but a diesel will either be more expensive to buy or much older/high mileage than a petrol of the same price.

Remap costs at least £200, more for a reputable one and it WILL smoke the clutch sooner or later due to the added torque. (£500 +++ to replace/upgrade), plus many diesels have issues with fuel injectors ,fuel pumps DMF's.... many would argue that they are a ticking time bomb once they get older.

IMO it is no good saving £100 a month on fuel if the car cost £1000 more in the first place and you spent another £1000 getting it mapped and clutched.

 

[Muttley]

Leon2012. As you no doubt already know, one way to increase the "power" of an engine is to increase the rpm while keeping the torque per stroke from dropping off.

Petrol engines can be made to deliver torque at incredibly high rpm, meaning that the power stroke is of very short duration, yet the combustion process is complete, the fuel-air mixture is completely turned to gas.

Diesels, no matter what you do, suffer from falling torque from about 4-4.5K rpm onwards. The simplest explanation is that the flame front is slower to propagate in the fuel-air mixture, leading to incomplete combustion, thus less gas generation, less of a bang. And, of course, a bit of soot. It is a fundamental limitation of the diesel cycle.

If you keep shoving in lots of air and lots of fuel you will get some power gain , lots of smoke and bad fuel economy. If you don't mind the smoke, the max BHp figure will be higher than a map that is smoke-limited.

So a smokey map is the sign of a remapper that is not concerned with his green credentials, for whatever reason.

 

[AshFR]

Nothing wrong with a bit of black smoke. My 306 smoked a fair bit and it was very handy when people are driving really close behind, put your foot down, cloud of soot and your away leaving them coughing. Black smoke is a good thing, show the engine is getting more than enough fuel. I would rather have it getting to much fuel than not enough as it would run lean and cause damage to the engine if it was getting only a little fuel. But yes, really, there shouldnt be a massive amount of black smoke, just a little is fine. Black smoke is better than blue or white smoke Have a look on youtube and type in 306 1.9 dturbo smoke and you will see the what black smoke is lol.

 

[Charlieboy FR+]

Leon Fr updae

Hi just a updae..I had the FR on the rollers today at A.M.D and was well chuffed.The standard figures should be around 150bhp 230ft/p.I actually got 167.1bhp and 257ft/p.Being that the car is ment to be standard i will have to look into it.I guess it must of had a chip/box or ecu flash god knows!!.Either way i was talking to someone there and after discovering he had the mods i wanted wih out eaven asking he gave me the keys to his car for a test drive.What are the chances of that!!
He had a FR PD150 with a Stage 1 remap/panel filter/de-cat and back pipes/Sachs organic clutch/Newspeed quickshifter.

So i took it for a drive and at first glance nothing is any louder and the clutch had a good feel not to heavy (sachs organic) and when i put my foot down it struggled for grip in 1/2/3rd (Damp conditions/winter tyres) it felt very lively.He also had a quick shifter wich made a huge differance such a good procise shift and reverse was alot easyer and shorter.After this exspirience and the day seeing all the bits and bobs on other peoples cars im defo getting my plans together its opened my eyes and thanks to all the guys and stinky!! for the advise and a go in the car .
Plans will follow after my Full service at A.M.D and my wallet allows (and the mrs lol) ps keep an eye out the Fr will be about having a few changes.I will keep the thread posted !!

 

[Muttley]

AshFR wrote

Nothing wrong with a bit of black smoke. My 306 smoked a fair bit and it was very handy when people are driving really close behind, put your foot down, cloud of soot and your away leaving them coughing. Black smoke is a good thing, show the engine is getting more than enough fuel. I would rather have it getting to much fuel than not enough as it would run lean and cause damage to the engine if it was getting only a little fuel.​

AshFR, the diesel (compression-ignition) combustion process is quite different from the petrol (Otto cycle) one. Diesels run lean almost all the time, taking in a full cylinder of air at every stroke (no throttle plate, this is deliberate) and controlling the power delivered solely by fuel quantity injected. So at idle, for instance, the injection quantity is minuscule, but the fuel still burns, and produces a power stroke.

Lean mixture in an Otto cycle engine runs the risk of engine knock. A diesel engine is "knocking" at every stroke

 

[Leon2012]

Here is a quote from a big TDI build with a Malone Tune:

"I ran across this Malone Tuning dyno chart, showing the improvement of a TDI engine like mine with the Stage 2 Malone tune, which I have installed. I KNEW it felt stout when I drove it in the donor car, and this shows why. I also upgraded the injectors when I installed the Malone Stage 2 ECU. FWIW, not only was the power improvement impressive, I saw NO SMOKING on hard acceleration with this tune"

( http://g3f-jlphil.blogspot.com/2011/07/13-update-from-france.html )


Amazingly, in N. America, KERMA has also recently tuned 90 BHP diesel with Bosio R520 racing injectors and VNT15 with NO smoke!!


Another quote:

"Having just gone thru tuning myself I can highly recommend our very own Mark Malone of Malone Tuning in Vancouver. Very responsive, extremely helpful, and the car is completely different to drive...scary fun actually... with absolutely no smoke"

( http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=27463.5;wap2 )


Muttley, have you considered a N. American tune/remap yourself....I'm SURE that would change your opinion

 

[Leon2012]

Another guy (from Middlesbrough, UK) running a Malone Tune on a Gold GT TDI 110 AHF:

"no, a diesel should not smoke bad if tuned properly .

if you add larger injetcors you will gain power . but usually at the cost of some smoke . the bigger the injectors the more smoke . however with a remap you can raise the boost to burn off the smoke and turn it onto power and if theres still smoke the tuner should dial back the fueling so that idealy there just a light greyish haze just to know that its maxing out the power but not over doing it and raising e.g.t's.

im putting out around 180bhp and 300ftlbs . and i have hardly any smoke at all . there s a tiny bit for a second if i boot it from below 2200 rpm (before the larger turbo starts to spool) but after that its clean power all the way.

if your car smokes heavily all that smoke is just wasted fuel and the tuner should be shot."

( http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/291338.aspx )

 

[Leon2012]

I had the FR on the rollers today at A.M.D and was well chuffed.The standard figures should be around 150bhp 230ft/p.I actually got 167.1bhp and 257ft/p.Being that the car is ment to be standard i will have to look into it.I guess it must of had a chip/box or ecu flash god knows!!.

Hi Charlie, it's good to hear you're pleased. Standard cars can vary and I've heard of several PD150s which have upto 165-170 BHP like you say, so I don't think it's something to worry about...you got a good one from the factory!