New Leon vs Mk1 - considering getting a new FR or Stylance

[Robdrums]

Hi all

I apologise in advance if I go on a bit here, but I have a lot of questions I want to ask (hopefully) impartial people about the new Leon.

I am considering buying one to replace my Mk1 Leon FR 150PS TDI in the next year or so, so I am particularly interested in the opinons of those that have made the transition from Mk1 to 2, or have driven both.

I am considering either a Stylance or FR in diesel variety - the former only because it's for some utterly ludicrous reason the only diesel available with the DSG 'box, which interests me a lot, but I would prefer the spec and performance of the FR. The Golf GT is available with the DSG (with or without paddleshifts I'm not sure) and 170PS TDI engine combo, but costs £21k and has a fraction of the toys that the Seat does. Honda also don't offer the iShift on any of the 2.2 diesel engines - don't understand why.

Any word that Seat might increase the DSG range to include it on the TDi FR, not just the petrol?

Firstly, is the DSG worth the drop in power? I am no track driver, but like the idea of having an auto in traffic and a manual the rest of the time.

How does it compare on the following factors to the MK1 FR:

1) The single worst thing about the Leon MK1 is rattles, squeaks and general build quality. It has been back three times with loose bits and rattles and drives me crazy every day. Is the new one still rattly or have they improved it?

2) Performance - both of the 140 and 170 engines, particularly mid range - 30 - 60 and 60-90 sprints. What sort of RPM is optimum gearchange? About 3500? Would I notice a drop from the 150 1.9 if I moved to the 140PS 2.0 lump?

3) I believe these models can't have the wheel mounted phone kit, but how does the Bluetooth thingy perform? I have a squeaky Bury hands free kit installed in my Leon now and would definitely like an integrated one. Can it be operated easily with more than one handset? Can I leave both phones on and select between them like with higher end kits or will I have to turn the other phone's Bluetooth off to avoid confusing it? Also is the volume loud enough and adjustable with the main radio volume control? If you don't have the wheel controls, how do you scroll through names and stuff on the dash?

4) I drove a new Toledo and hated the flat accelerator pedal - it feels like an organ volume pedal! I know the new Leon has this too - is this just something to get used to?

5) The stereo in the Toledo was also rubbish compared to the generally quite-good-for-a-standard-issue Aura unit in the Leon. Is the new Leon's stereo any good? I would prefer if possible not to have to upgrade the stereo. Also would this pose a problem to the handsfree Bluetooth kit if you did?

6) Storage space - the Leon FR Mk1 didn't have much storage space with the tiny seat pockets and glovebox (especially as I have a changer in there). Is the new one generally the same in this area?

Lastly, I know the sports pack is suspension and seats, but what are the ones I have seen around with R32 style twin exhausts and rear intake things? Is this an option? On all variants?

The New Civic is the biggest rival at the moment, as the Golf is just too much money for what it is and I don't fancy the BMW 1 Series M-Sport so much. Plus I want it in yellow really, but the Civic's styling is bold enough to catch my eye. I love that dash so much! Anyone driven one that they could compare to the Leon (new and/or old mark)?

Thanks for any input, guys

Rob

 

[amnesia]

Personally, I'd go for the FR. If you want the DSG box it's great. But wouldn't you rather have the preformance that petrol offers? Fuel prices are the same and the DSG is meant to deliver better MPG then the manual. I don't think you can have two phones on bluetooth, but you can raise the volume. It's quite clear and high, to be honest. You can scroll through the steering wheel as you get those buttons when you get bluetooth fitted. I think the new Leon is better in every area. It's nicer to drive. I think you need to drive them both and see what suits you.

I haven't really noticed the pedal. It seems fine with me. The space? It's bigger in the back and I'd generally say the storage space is the same.

And as for the Civic. My friend has a Type R and I have an FR. Another friend drove both and he preferred the FR for drive and speed. As you need to Rev the Civic hard to get the preformance. Overall, I'd say to just go and test drive both of them for a good amount of time. Opinions vary and cars are a big decision.

And the R32 look? It's the Aero bodykit that you can get as an option from Seat. You can get it on all models except the Cupra, I think. It's mainly done on Reference sports, though.

And as for the headunit, it seems fine to me. Better with an MP3 connected, though. And on last thing on the DSG, when you can change gear faster than a Ferrari, that's gotta' be good for your ego, lol.

 

[Robdrums]

Thanks mate - interesting what you say, and I think I probably would go for an FR for the performance, but it'll be diesel all the way. Do too many miles these days, and I just prefer the way TDi's drive to petrol engines, torque is more useful to me and the type of driving I do.

The thing I would most like to know is about the rattles, as this is what has often made me want to jack the Leon in and go elsewhere.

Rob

 

[amnesia]

From what I've read a few people have experienced those problems, with the rattles, but personally I haven't. It seems mostly the TDI have the most rattles, as far as the petrol FR goes. Zero complaints, really. Especially considering the price you pay for what you actually get.

 

[chrisboyle999]

I don't think you can have two phones on bluetooth, but you can raise the volume. It's quite clear and high, to be honest. You can scroll through the steering wheel as you get those buttons when you get bluetooth fitted.

you can pair more than 1 phone with the car but only 1 at a time. if two phones have their bluetooth on the car will pair with the phone it paired with most recently. if you can follow that .

 

[rpmleon]

Just moved from the Mk1 150 TDi PD Cupra myself and, if doing a lot of miles, I would have definitely gone with the 170 FR as opposed to the 140 Stylance. I love the new motor which is the TFSI FR DSG but I must admit, fuel consumption does tend to sting!

Blue tooth is a must! You get the upgraded screen etc. I would also recommend getting the 18" wheels.

RPM

 

[Michael B]

you can pair more than 1 phone with the car but only 1 at a time. if two phones have their bluetooth on the car will pair with the phone it paired with most recently. if you can follow that .

thats really interesting.. I've a work phone, and my own phone - I must repair my work phone so that it works first in the car, then I dont have to worry about turning on Bluet on my own phone at the weekends.

 

[beachboy]

I agree with amnesia. For performance the FR DSG petrol wins. If you do a high mileage then it has to be the FR 140/170. Test drive both plus the Civic. There is a marked difference between the 140 and 170 suspensions (170 is much firmer). I have not driven the Civic but reports suggest that its suspension is also very firm.
Suspension is a very personal matter so all the more reason to do test drives first.
The DSG box is outstanding.

 

[seadragon]

I have an FR but have been thinking of the Civic Type S GT 2.2 Diesel (did a test drive today in fact).

I prefer the power of the Leon (no rattles ever by the way) but the Civic has much better mpg, good torque and steering, although it is heavier than the Leon, is very direct and excellent when going round corners.

The ride wasnt as hard as the FR but then I love the ride on the FR, but some people have a prob with it.

Its all down to weighing up the pros and cons and see which one outweighs the other.

 

[Robdrums]

I must admit I fancy a change - but can't fault value for money when it comes to anything Seat. So disappointed the FR Diesel isn't available with DSG.

However I can't stop lusting after the Civic's interior, even though the whole thing looks like an extra from Back to the Future, it's so bold and different. Plus in terms of toys it's up there, if not superior, to the Leon FR. Hands free phone, cruise control, sat nav, digital dash.

I think more than suspension the gearbox will affect my decision a lot. I love VW 'boxes, manual, auto, everything, they're just second to none. Drove a Mondeo and a Vectra recently and this was the bitterest taste I was left after driving them, that the gearboxes were horrid. Until then a Mondeo ST TDCi was a possibility, but that's pushing the budget up a bit.

Any thoughts on the Octavia VRS TDI?

Rob

 

[beachboy]

Ask the boys on www.briskoda.net for their views.

 

[Tam]

Any thoughts on the Octavia VRS TDI?

Rob

I borrowed a VRS TDI the other week, i absolutely love it.

Boot was huge .... so so so big its hard to explain you could sleep 3 in it!!
Inside was lovely, big, spacious, seats were comfy and softer, but still supportive. The inside of the door was soft feel/touch covering rather than the hard plastic of the Leon doors, much better for your elbows
Power was the same (actually felt more - no idea why!)
Gearbox was the same.
This VRS had 18" wheels too (optional?), and although look a pain to clean the ride was comfy.
The suspension *IS* softer than the Leon, and it leans a much more in corners than the Leon so back road sprints aren't as entertaining as in the Leon, but its not bad.
The stereo *rocks* in the vRS, not to mention it supports MP3's and has a 6 disc-changer in the boot (optional?).
Only downside is no bluetooth for the phone, although you do get the large MFD.

Sounds like i like the vRS - Yep and next time round (2years 3 months time to be precise) when kids are more likely than they are at present, it'll probably be at the top of my list.

 

[phil3012]

Feedback on a few of your questions...

1. Mine had rattles but apart from the air vent one, the dealer sorted them no problem. The guy who fixed them was actually ex VW and he reckoned the Golf was worse for rattles than the Leon.

4. I never liked the look of the accelerator pedal but to use it is no different to any other car.

5. Stereo is okay. Forget the iPod connector but the standard MP3 compatbility works well. Sound quality wise does the job for a standard fit but thats about it.

6. Storage space I find fine, as i don't carry CDs in the car anymore (the plus point of the MP3 and iPod connector). Out of interest, the salesman wouldn't even sell me an autochanger as they are 'apparently' that old hat now...

Had a Stylance as a loan car, very good kit for the money.

 

[seatb0y]

I'm almost ready to get the FR TDI. Yes petrol has better 0-60 but in real driving conditions the torque of the diesel is far better than that of the petrol, plus the added bonus of better mpg. I drive an old Octavia vRS which is no slouch, but on the open road I'd have trouble keeping up with an FR TDI.
I also considered the Civic Type S GT 2.2 Diesel, but although the car is great to drive the paint is crap and results in loads of stone chips on the bonnet

Also looked at the new vRS 170 TDi, but it's not as well spec`d and you have to pay for the likes of cruise control and dual climate. Skoda is no longer the bargain car it use to be.

So FR TDI for me - once the dealer decides to call me back

 

[Robdrums]

Well, been and had a look at the Civic today and to be honest, I think the love affair is over. The dash is cool, but strip it all away, and think what you're left with once the novelty has worn off and the answer is, for £19k, not much. I had the 2.2 CDTi 5 door EX model for a morning.

The satnav was OK, but the voice operation and all that jazz was just style over substance, and like the bells and whistles on my phone, I can't see myself using them once I'm used to the array of buttons. The number of times I said what I thought would be reasonable questions/requests and I was told 'climate control off' or something similar. I have also been told the time at least 50 times in the last two hours.

Also when I asked it to find the nearest restaurant it wanted to take me to France (literally - it said 'do you want to travel by ferry or Channel Tunnel?'!) or the nearest Mexican restaurant was apparently Chiquito in Birmingham (about 150 miles away). Also, it detected 'supermarket' as 'hospital' and was generally just a disaster of style over substance. I guess you'd need to get used to it and learn the language, but it wasn't the space age glimpse of the future I was hoping for.

The bluetooth was OK but again not intuitive at all.

So, I shall be paying Seat another visit next week to have a look at the Stylance and the FR. I do still want the DSG and am baffled at the absence of it on the TDI FR spec/options, but what can you do? First trip I think, though, is VW, as you can get DSG on all the models, but I'm expecting to walk out soon after as soon as we start talking money. They're just too much.

All in all, a productive is slightly disappointing morning - I wanted to love the Civic and respect its bold styling, but the whole experience left me a bit cold. It was well put together and well specced but I just don't know that it's for me. Underneath the bells and whistles it's not an amazing engine, not easy to use and not as much fun to drive as my Leon. I was glad to get back in the old fellow and leave the robots in the rear-view!

Rob

 

[SEATcarsdirect.co.uk]

Rob let me know what deal they offer you and i will see if i can better it for you


Irfan

 

[Robdrums]

Been out and test drove a Focus ST this morning.
It was... OK. Sounds great, goes pretty well but is very civilised, didn't exactly feel seat-of-your-pants driving like a Leon Cupra. But every day that's probably a good thing, and overall I liked it. Distinctly lacking compared to the Leon in terms of spec though - no cruise, climate control, etc but the engine is a cracker. Not an option until they find a way to squeeze the 2.2 Mondeo ST engine under the Focus, as there's no hot diesel, surely a big market they're missing out on?

Also went to talk to VW, but he had no DSG TDIs in the country, and I was left feeling there was a hint of arrogance about them as the only thing they seem to sell on is residual values and quality of plastics! Don't get me wrong, both good things, but I think he could see I was thinking '£4-5k more than a Leon (to bring it up to FR spec)?'

Rob

 

[Chuckie]

I have a FR TFSI petrol, but regularly drive hired 2.2d Civics.

My main issue is the interiors;
I accept that the Leons is more 'bland/basic' than the Civics 'stylish/back to the future' but there are serious issues with the Civic interior

To see the digital speedo over the top of the steering wheel you need to have the wheel at an uncomfortably low setting (I have no issues with digital speedos as my wife has had two Yarisis (Yari??))

The rear view mirror is seriosly compromised by the rear brake light in the middle of the back window.

Long term durability of the Civic interior is poor, I have driven Civics from brand new with 25 miles on, to units 9 months old with 10000 miles and within 3 to 4 months or 6000 miles, the interrior is very scratched and worn looking. I know that these are hire cars and will take some stick but they look like a car 5 years old or more.

Hope this is of some use

By the way you don't notice the organ pedal accelerator after a few drives

Chris

 

[Robdrums]

Yeah, that's what I was worried about. It felt quite solid, but is very plasticky and once you take away the bells and whistles is definitely less of a car than the Leon.

As for the Focus, it goes well and is very civilised but overall, I found it less thrilling than my Leon TDi, and for 20mpg, I see no point.

Rob

 

[chrisboyle999]

Yeah, that's what I was worried about. It felt quite solid, but is very plasticky and once you take away the bells and whistles is definitely less of a car than the Leon.

As for the Focus, it goes well and is very civilised but overall, I found it less thrilling than my Leon TDi, and for 20mpg, I see no point.

Rob

i agree the mpg verses performance ratio is pants in the st, but depending on what powers THIS it could well be my next car.