New diesel engines

[cpufreak]

one of the things which interests me about the new VAG 2.0 Diesel is that its (I think) alloy block instead of iron block so it should be a bit lighter. (a 1.9 TDI FR engined ibiza weighs about 80 kilos more than the 1.8T FR).
I wouldn't be that suprised if VW have a 200BHP (or close to 200bhp) version of that engine out when they get round to bringing out the proper Golf GTi's

 

[techie]

What kind o' manual is that 1 u own?
Anything on diesel engines would be gladly appreciated.

Its the manual you get when attending the training course at the VAG training school in Milton Keynes.

About 70 pages in all, covering most of SEAT diesel stuff.

 

[basstard]

Could you think of anyway to share that? I mean, I guess you ain't gonna scan 70 pages for a never seen italian, but may be photocopies or pdf's for the site,,, dunno. Anyway, all this under the condition that you'd like to share it mate!!

 

[Snoopy]

Are they going to produce the twin turbo engines for real? like the OPC Astra? Anyway IMO I think they gonna release a 1.9 with less hp than the 212 that astra had. that's way too much for a "quiet" car which is to be sold to aged target customers,,, dontcha think?

yes. Theres also a 5 pot version

I wouldn't say that. PD is a thing I never seen on any other diesel car other than a VAG one. And PD is the cutting edge technology in my opinion since it can produce 150 hp on a 1.9 liter with 8 valves and a single single-stage injector while FIAT can produce 150hp on a 1.9 with 16 valves and two double-stage injectors which is better technology and should do better. Plus the Fiat unit is just dreaming to produce all the torque the vw does.
Neither BMW did a such powerful diesel: their unit produces 150hp but it's a 2.0 liter.

theres some good comparisons out there of PD v common rail and maybe worth you searching them out. PD is very limited due to its design.

The PD with high power have very narrow usable powerbands. Fiat decided rather than say 'ours' is more powerfull and go in the power race thing against VW/PSA they went for a smoother more usable powerband.
Fiat TDIs will chip to silly figures if you want then to compete with VW. The end result is Higher and smoother than the equivelent VW units in both BHP and torque.
The narrow powerband is the reason fiat have developed the twin turbo version.

Why did VW go PD instead of common rail? simple Lancia were already sueing VW because of the rights to the narrow angle V engine designs of the VR6 and V5 and so VW said stuff FIAT were not going to pay the rights to use your common rail system so it decided to go with PD. It was actually more political than tecnical reasons.

Ive been a die hard VW fan all my life but fiat leed the way with TDI tecnology.

 

[basstard]

yes. Theres also a 5 pot version

what do you mean with that (my english ain't THIS good!!)?

Fiat TDIs will chip to silly figures if you want then to compete with VW

You mean a chipped fiat JTD M-jet is going to have more torque and more hpp than a chipped VW TDI?

 

[Snoopy]

yes a standard fiat 1.9 with chip to more than a vw unit. my mate had silly figures in his punto but he got it rechipped as it was just too mad for the roads round here.

5 cylinder engine instead of just the 4. there will be a small capacity 5 and a reworked version of the present 2.4 the prototypes on test in wales are putting huge power out and are very reliable.

Its also not a very well known fact that fiat often quote lower power figures for insurance reasons. The unit thats in the punto infact is the same unit thats in the brava but they just quote lower figures for it.
Also older fiat cars power figures were at the wheel figures not the crank as this helped fool the insurance people.

 

[prc]

Well I read the other day that the new golf GTi will be available with a 210hp 2.0L tdi...

 

[basstard]

Well I read the other day that the new golf GTi will be available with a 210hp 2.0L tdi...

Uh-oh, this is very good news!!

 

[basstard]

Wait a minute, did a quick search on the net and found out that the 2.0 liter 210hp is just a race version. Are you sure they gonna sell it to us too?

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_753.shtml

being the article on the race version.
Pushes out somethin' like 445Nm @ 1750 rpm
Imegine that on the little beeza!!

 

[prc]

Wait a minute, did a quick search on the net and found out that the 2.0 liter 210hp is just a race version. Are you sure they gonna sell it to us too?

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_753.shtml

being the article on the race version.
Pushes out somethin' like 445Nm @ 1750 rpm
Imegine that on the little beeza!!

Not sure where I read it, but was told that it will be available for 2005.

 

[basstard]

my mate had silly figures in his punto but he got it rechipped as it was just too mad for the roads round here

I sincerely felt quite fooled around as a customer having the FIAT guys tryin to sell me their 1.9 JTD (which first version was 105hp) de-powered to 86hp. A 1.9 with 86hp is crap since it's slow and burns a lot of diesel if pushed a little bit.

The unit thats in the punto infact is the same unit thats in the brava but they just quote lower figures for it.

Wouldn't be so sure. Here in Italy, I heard of people with punto's getting 'em modded with the Bravo's parts such as turbine and other stuff. I don't whink they gonna sell a 105hp just sayin' "well this one's just 86hp". Someone would notice that and most of all, the jtd puntos would have been unbeatble (the punto is very light) and I assure you, they aren't.

What figures did your mate's car come up once chipped? And most of all, are we talking of a SANE mod or just like the superchips which beat the hell out of a 110 but leave you on the road after 500kms?

Anyway, I must say that you're tempting me to buy italian next time! Even more since I heard all the probs vw is recently coming throu.

 

[prc]

Well there's a highly modded Bravo here in Portugal that dyno'd in at 150Hp (not sure of the torque). Goes like crazy.

 

[basstard]

Well there's a highly modded Bravo here in Portugal that dyno'd in at 150Hp (not sure of the torque). Goes like crazy

Well, JonTdi has his beeza runnin @152hp simply with the box. Now the stock bravo jtd has just 5hp less than the stock beeza but it needs to be "highly modded" to reach those figures,,,
This is only a supposition tho. I'd like to compare deeper the two cars.

Anyway, I'm courious to see what figures can a JTD M-Jet put out when chipped. The architecture of that unit is better than any 1.9 by vw (except for the PD of course!) and so maybe with stronger turbine, BIG intercooler and a serious chipping, IMHO could easily pass 200hp and maybe by far (240 more or less?)

 

[sssstew]

mmm me likes that uprated 210 TDI engine though.....

 

[Snoopy]

Well I read the other day that the new golf GTi will be available with a 210hp 2.0L tdi...

are you sure someone did not just hit the wrong key on the keyboard and types TDI instead of TSI (turbo version of the FSI direct injection petrol unit) as the golf GTI will get a 200bhp TSI engine as shown at all the latest motorshows.

 

[prc]

I can't guarentee it, but if Opel/Vauxhall come out with a 1.9L 212Hp diesel engine, I'm sure the rest will follow with more.

 

[techie]

Like as mentioned before. Vauxhall have taken the easy route to getting a high tech diesel, they use someone elses (FIAT).

The twin turbo four cylinder diesel (212 bhp) is lined up for the Vectra.

Still in a big old ugly bus though

I'll stick with my old 8V PD cheers, she does me proud.

 

[deezal]

I was surprised to hear that VW are scrapping the PD engine which Ive always thought was the best of the diesels if a little noisier than others, I could live with it for the economy it gives. For me the road noise in the Ibiza is more of an issue anyway and Ill be considering other VW group Tdis for my next car.
Question is, when will the Common Rails appear across the ranges, knowing that SEAT are the last to get anything?

 

[mja_fin]

I was surprised to hear that VW are scrapping the PD engine which Ive always thought was the best of the diesels if a little noisier than others, I could live with it for the economy it gives. For me the road noise in the Ibiza is more of an issue anyway and Ill be considering other VW group Tdis for my next car.
Question is, when will the Common Rails appear across the ranges, knowing that SEAT are the last to get anything?

The new Audi A4, which you can probably already order, features only common rail diesels. The new VW Tiguan will also feature, probably the same, 2.0 common rails. Golfs probably late 2008 (with Mk VI) but Seats..who knows. Exactly the reason why I'm going for a 120d instead of Leon FR TDI..

 

[dmjw01]

I was surprised to hear that VW are scrapping the PD engine

As I understand it, the problem is that the PD engine can't be tweaked far enough to meet upcoming emissions requirements in the future.

In order to meet ever more stringent emissions rules, engine designers are having to do more exotic things, like injecting fuel into the exhaust stroke (don't ask me how that helps, but apparently it does).

But with PD, the injection pressure is only available while that plunger is pressing down inside the PD injector. That means it's only available at certain crank angles, because the PD injector is cam driven. So with PD you can only ever inject fuel near top-dead-centre between the compression and power stroke.

Common Rail maintains its pressure all the time, so the injectors can squirt fuel into the cylinders any time they like. It's a much more flexible system in that sense.