New diesel engines

[basstard]

First of all I'd like to say that I'm a Vag enthusiast and most of all a TDI enthusiast.

Guess anyone of you has noticed the new diesel engines.
Amog the others,
-the Fiat M-Jet 1.9 140 & 150 hp (yes vw has done the 150 1.9 years before but here we're talking 'bout a 16 valve engine with two multi jet injectors per cylinder)
-the 1.6 110 hp by Ford-Citroen-Pug.
-the 1.5 100 hp by renault

So it seems that my beezer has a kind of old concept engine. The car is getting quite old now (4 years) and in max 2-3 years I hope i'll change it.

Now, the new TDI 2.0 140hp is not so powerful compared to others and even with the 1.9 150hp TDI. Hope they'll sell a more powerful version (the 1.9 ranged from 90 to 150 hp!!) or else I'll have to choose another brand. My family has VAG group cars since the old beetle so I'm in love with vw's since I was a kid.

What I'd like to know is if newer and more powerful vw diesel engines are planned to come out in the near future.

On the other side thinking of the ford-psa 1.6 110ish under the bonnet of a fiesta or 206 makes me interested. Does anyone know if there's any chance to see that engine on those cars in the future?

The last question: I've read that the new 3.0 TDI 233hp by audi is a common-rail engine, why this choice? In my opinion the PD is far better than the common-rail system.

 

[driveforward]

The 1.9 unit will be in the new Ibiza Cupra in 160BHP form

Can't answer anything else, but PD's do 'use a common rail'

 

[basstard]

PD's do 'use a common rail'

No, wait a minute!
I know that a common rail is a system that uses a single injection pump with a single fuel line that is common to all the injectors to keep the pressure the same for all the injectors on that line.
So, i know my 110 is not a common rail for sure since it has a single fuel line coming out of the fuel pump for each injector.
Now the PD's: I know they got a single "little" fuel pump mounted on each injector to keep the pressure right for each chamber. Now you say that each pump gets the fuel from the same line? I always thought that even the PD's weren't common rail.

 

[driveforward]

I totally agree, but it may be worth doing a search to dig out a previous discussion on this, as from what I can remember the conclusion was that all the "little" pumps are fed from a common rail which is fed from one single pump..

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I totally agree, but it may be worth doing a search to dig out a previous discussion on this, as from what I can remember the conclusion was that all the "little" pumps are fed from a common rail which is fed from one single pump..

Yes but you are just totally confusing the issue and being pedantic.

THe PD engines are different to the Common Rail engins eg Merc, BMW, Peugot. Only VAG car use the PD system. It produces higher pressures than the common rail system and hence slightly better efficiency, at the expence of refinment. PD are not Common Rails.

 

[Neo_VR]

Ive driven various diesel cars. and i like PD the best. fair enough its louder than the latest common rail engines... but the torque output is muuuch more!.. its very easy to stall a common rail engine if you dont rev it enough.

 

[ralph]

A common rail has a single high pressure pump that fills a pipe at high pressure somthing like 1600bar from this pipe each injector is fed and the injectors are controlled by the ecu very similar to the fuel injection system on a car.

PD is a low pressure electric pump ( about 3 bar) which pumps fuel up to each injector which is like a plunger which is pushed down by the cam shaft which takes the pressure up to about 2000bar. the injection again is controlled by the ECU. so yes the injectors are fed via a single pipe but it is not known as a common rail system even if it could be argued that it is. PD engines have better tourqe figures because the fuel is atomised a lot better due to the higher pressure they also have better emission's.

 

[Fl@pper]

as long as they start go well and give good mpg - WHO CARES lol

as for power how many of the others get REVO >?< would that solve the power issue ?

plus i think the audi is back on the QUIETER system for that reason

and a measly 10bhp could be lost in wrong gearing so why worry about it @ the moment as soon as you blink they'll all have new ones out with better technology and power always the way - personally speaking

Ford - mention diesel and people will think FLEET CAR
FIAT - Depreciation over here bad - engine will be in a farm generator before the body warranty runs out
Citroen/Peugeot/Renault - are all Pretty much the same but if latest TDi Renault problems are any indication then stand well back


yours is as they go one of the very first generation TDi's and as you know limited in finesse and power but does what it's intended for - i'd wait for the ibiza Cupra TDi - be along just in time for your projected change

 

[christdi]

I read that VW are going to be bringing out a performance version of their new pd engine next year. I think it will have around 170bhp. Considering the weight of the new Golf, I dont think it will be that impressive but in the likes of an Ibiza, that would be a different story, God knows when Seat will get hold of it though

 

[basstard]

fair enough its louder than the latest common rail engines.

I guess 'vryone of us here is caring much more 'bout torque than engine noise!!

Ford - mention diesel and people will think FLEET CAR

Yes, I know, but not so long ago even Seat's weren't considered this well around.
I don't give what people think o' my car, I give looking their in my mirrors when smokin' out their 2.0-2.5 petrols.
I can only feel good vibrations coming from a small fiesta with 110hp and 240Nm under my right foot. Then I think of a powerbox or a chip and I start smiling even more.

FIAT - Depreciation over here bad - engine will be in a farm generator before the body warranty runs out

Truly?! Well, I dunno if u know but here in italy Fiat's are hated. Everyone knows they're crap. Anyway Alfa Romeo's are good cars in my opinion, even if Fiat based. A 147 with 140-150hp and 305Nm and a chip (mind you 180-190hp) with all the optionals of the case would be a great car in my opionion.

Citroen/Peugeot/Renault - are all Pretty much the same

Citroen and Pug's have the same 110ish 1.6 built with Ford. Renault has that good 1.5 100hp but it has too little torque (200Nm) for my likes. Maybe under a Clio which is very light could work well,,, dunno. Maybe a chip,,,

but if latest TDi Renault problems are any indication then stand well back

What problems? Didn't hear anything 'bout that. Enlight me!

I read that VW are going to be bringing out a performance version of their new pd engine next year. I think it will have around 170bhp. Considering the weight of the new Golf, I dont think it will be that impressive but in the likes of an Ibiza, that would be a different story, God knows when Seat will get hold of it though

I think a 2.0 170hp golf would be great tho. Consider that more torque is like having a lighter car with less torque. Anyway under an Ibiza, yes, it would be a totally different story!! But you know that seat is always getting the vw engines a lot of time after they're available in a vw or audi car.

 

[CupraR-Rog]

Renault dCI problems...

...it's fun having a dealer leave a load of messages on your answer phone, and writing you an "urgent" letter to get your car back to them ASAP because of the crankshaft bearings (the only thing I was told more than once, but always revolving around the crank shaft) failing...

...Strange that, after the re-call work, my car was a touch quicker (but still not fast... it was only 65bhp!), a fair bit quieter, and stopped using oil!! Funniest thing was hearing the odd one or two pull in to the forecourt... knock knock knock....

and no, I didn't touch that engine at all!! Stock filter, stock ecu... only thing I changed was the tyre size on hte original wheels!!

Any more problems been heard of?? (I ask because my dad has my old car now...)

 

[techie]

A common rail has a single high pressure pump that fills a pipe at high pressure somthing like 1600bar from this pipe each injector is fed and the injectors are controlled by the ecu very similar to the fuel injection system on a car.

PD is a low pressure electric pump ( about 3 bar) which pumps fuel up to each injector which is like a plunger which is pushed down by the cam shaft which takes the pressure up to about 2000bar. the injection again is controlled by the ECU. so yes the injectors are fed via a single pipe but it is not known as a common rail system even if it could be argued that it is. PD engines have better tourqe figures because the fuel is atomised a lot better due to the higher pressure they also have better emission's.

The PD engines have two fuel pumps. A low pressure lift pump in the tank to bring the fuel up to the engine, then a higher pressure mechanical pump driven by the engine to supply the fuel rail that leads to all the injectors.

I scanned that out of my VAG Diesel training manual

 

[basstard]

VAG Diesel training manual

Sounds good,,, could you share something from that with us?

 

[techie]

Whatcha wanna know?

 

[Fl@pper]

Renaults recent TDI's have a nasty habit of blowing turbos that is if the overboost light/default limp mode doesnt stop you when you hit 5000 3 times on the trot

never believed it myself til i actually road tested one

seen over 12 months renault laguna TDI have new turbos in @ least 35 cars and 2 engines in clios 1.5

rest of the faults were minor EGR valves and resets and stuff but annoying if having a light pop on weekly huh

 

[techie]

My apprentice at work borrows his dads Renault Laguna TDi sometimes, thats on its 2nd turbo in 10,000 miles.

 

[basstard]

Whatcha wanna know?

What kind o' manual is that 1 u own?
Anything on diesel engines would be gladly appreciated.

 

[Snoopy]

if you want a fiat deisel but not a fiat group car, buy a new Vauxhall astra/corsa. they are using the fiat units. Also you could wait for the twin turbo multi-jet fiat units that will be released soon. Makes all VW deisels look low powered with silly small usable rev range.
Fiat have always lead TDI tecnology and its only VW not wanting to pay the rights to use common rail they went for PD. VW lag behind on engine tecnology as a court case proved not long ago when fait took them to court because of the narrow V angled engines like the VR6 as Fiat/lancia paten that design years ago.

VW group cars engines are not the best out there but the overall car package IMHO is one of the best out there and its the reason i own them.

 

[muddyboots]

Fiat have always lead TDI

You wouldn't say that if you heard my neighbours Fiat Panda diesel.

It is without doubt the noisiest diesel car I have ever heard, worse than most transits, tractors, old Volvos/Fords etc

I thought that Peugeot/Citroen led the way with diesels for many years, in the day of the indirect injected engine...

 

[basstard]

Ballie is right Muddyboots, FIAT has created the common rail system wich was avalaible at first on the 1989's Croma TD. I mean, the diesel panda is not an issue!!! we're talking 'bout cars here!!

if you want a fiat deisel but not a fiat group car, buy a new Vauxhall astra/corsa. they are using the fiat units

Yes I know, but I'd never buy an Opel (Vauxhall in Italy). Although in the last months I've been changing my mind since I think the new Astra is an interesting car (thinking of it with the 1.9 150ish). Anyway I never said I'd never buy a FIAT group car, I like Alfa's very much, particulary the 147.

Also you could wait for the twin turbo multi-jet fiat units that will be released soon

Are they going to produce the twin turbo engines for real? like the OPC Astra? Anyway IMO I think they gonna release a 1.9 with less hp than the 212 that astra had. that's way too much for a "quiet" car which is to be sold to aged target customers,,, dontcha think?

VW lag behind on engine tecnology

I wouldn't say that. PD is a thing I never seen on any other diesel car other than a VAG one. And PD is the cutting edge technology in my opinion since it can produce 150 hp on a 1.9 liter with 8 valves and a single single-stage injector while FIAT can produce 150hp on a 1.9 with 16 valves and two double-stage injectors which is better technology and should do better. Plus the Fiat unit is just dreaming to produce all the torque the vw does.
Neither BMW did a such powerful diesel: their unit produces 150hp but it's a 2.0 liter.