Manual mode on DSG kickdown over rev issue (184TDI)

[Havsgaard]

Sorry I haven't been on my thread, been so busy over the weekend!

@Havsgaard - If you could check this out that would be interesting to see the results!

@Count Drunkula - I know that's the obvious thing to do when in manual but why would the option still be there to kickdown still when in manual though?

And yes to everyone to confirm this is a diesel engine!

Hi

On my way to work this morning I put into manual, and when in 6th gear I quickly floored the speeder, but there was no kickdown, it just picked up pace without shifting.

One thing to note though, I am running a remap, but that is only the motor, no remap of DSG.

 

[KXL]

Just to confirm when you guys mention kickdown you mean foot to the floor till the pedal presses the little button on the floor where the pedal meets the floor?

 

[Kane7]

Wtf is that little button always thought was just poor finishing under the foot peddle

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[Zaco95]

Probably put in the software as a safety feature to prevent people putting full torque demand through the transmission at low rpm. In much the same way as it will upshift at redline in manual mode

@Count Drunkula - Could well be this, but why would you take it above 4000rpm anyway as there is no power there I find?

Hi

On my way to work this morning I put into manual, and when in 6th gear I quickly floored the speeder, but there was no kickdown, it just picked up pace without shifting.

One thing to note though, I am running a remap, but that is only the motor, no remap of DSG.

@Havsgaard - Could be to do with the remap, you definitely went through the kickdown button?

Just to confirm when you guys mention kickdown you mean foot to the floor till the pedal presses the little button on the floor where the pedal meets the floor?

@KXL - Yes the button at the end of the accelerator pedal which you have to press through

Wtf is that little button always thought was just poor finishing under the foot peddle

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@Kane7 - Its basically the last bit of acceleration so you get full throttle, but with a DSG it drops the gears automatically so you have more power but as my thread explains when in manual mode it doesn't always.

 

[KXL]

Also I guess when you say full manual mode on a DSG means, Gearstick to the left of D and the +/- lights up there, and you can shift either by pushing stick forward and down, or paddles.

However, keeping the gearstick in D and tapping the paddles to over-ride it temporarily does not constitue a full manual over-ride yes?

Ok I need to try this on mine as well, to see what happens hee hee...maybe a broken gearbox.

 

[Zaco95]

Also I guess when you say full manual mode on a DSG means, Gearstick to the left of D and the +/- lights up there, and you can shift either by pushing stick forward and down, or paddles.

However, keeping the gearstick in D and tapping the paddles to over-ride it temporarily does not constitue a full manual over-ride yes?

Ok I need to try this on mine as well, to see what happens hee hee...maybe a broken gearbox.

Yes when the stick is pushed over to the left.
And yes you are correct when you press either paddle whilst in "D" it only takes over temporarily.

Have you got the same gearbox in your Ibiza then?

 

[KXL]

Yes when the stick is pushed over to the left.
And yes you are correct when you press either paddle whilst in "D" it only takes over temporarily.

Have you got the same gearbox in your Ibiza then?

Well I've got the 7 speed one. The logic seems to be the same....I have only pressed that kickdown button once or twice, overtaking a lorry on a single carriageway.

Can't remember (as too busy looking at the road) if when kickdown in D it changes to S mode or not, but revs did go to the redline.

But for sure on temp override (paddle tap) it does downshift (without paddle input), even if 2k rpm or higher (Eg...I tap to 4 > 3, back to 4th again, floor it @ 2k+ rpm, it will downshift automatically even in temp M mode) Perhaps the DSG knows, well you've got a 1 litre, and only 200 NM torques, here you go, have a lower gear!

I will try this weekend (Gear stick to the left (+/-)) and floor it (safely) see if it downshifts.

 

[Havsgaard]

[[/B]



@Havsgaard - Could be to do with the remap, you definitely went through the kickdown button?

[/B]

Sorry I was a bit too fast, had to push it a bit more down to click the button, then it changed gear down in manual mode. Driving 80 km/h and flooring it, it kicked down into 3rd and went all the way to red rpm area. Was actually the first time i did this in manual mode. I wonder why it goes into 3rd and not 4th, as it does in S mode at same speed.

 

[Zaco95]

Sorry I was a bit too fast, had to push it a bit more down to click the button, then it changed gear down in manual mode. Driving 80 km/h and flooring it, it kicked down into 3rd and went all the way to red rpm area. Was actually the first time i did this in manual mode. I wonder why it goes into 3rd and not 4th, as it does in S mode at same speed.

Right there you go, so you seem to have the issue (if you can call it that) as well.
See that's what I don't understand when it is in D or S and you press the kickdown it selects the correct gear as you mentioned!


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[Count Drunkula]

Kick down is nothing to do with a button (which I don't think is actually a button it's just a stopper for the pedal).

Kick down is a term originally associated with automatic gearboxes , it means when full torque demand is requested in higher gears ie. WOT

The gearbox will drop (Or kick) down 1 or more gears to give more responsive acceleration

As for why above 4k rpm ?

The DSG has shift points coded in to correspond to throttle position , engine load and torque demand . Try using 75% throttle application to kick down and it may only drop 1 or 2 gears instead of 3

 

[Zaco95]

Kick down is nothing to do with a button (which I don't think is actually a button it's just a stopper for the pedal).

Kick down is a term originally associated with automatic gearboxes , it means when full torque demand is requested in higher gears ie. WOT

The gearbox will drop (Or kick) down 1 or more gears to give more responsive acceleration

As for why above 4k rpm ?

The DSG has shift points coded in to correspond to throttle position , engine load and torque demand . Try using 75% throttle application to kick down and it may only drop 1 or 2 gears instead of 3

I tried having the throttle in different positions in manual today and still dependand of what speed you are at, what gear your in and throttle position then you go for the kickdown to what gear it changes down to, for example: I was in 6th @ 40mph @ 75% throttle (can hear the engine under labour) > kickdown and changes to 3rd which is just above 3000rpm...Great! but say the exact same speed, exact same throttle position but in 5th gear then kickdown it goes into 2nd gear and then the revs go all the way to red line which for this diesel there is virtually no power above 4000rpm and red line is a 5000rpm.

The thing is if you are in D or S no matter throttle position speed etc, when you go to kickdown the gear change is spot on!

 

[weasley]

Kick down is nothing to do with a button (which I don't think is actually a button it's just a stopper for the pedal).

Kick down is a term originally associated with automatic gearboxes , it means when full torque demand is requested in higher gears ie. WOT

The gearbox will drop (Or kick) down 1 or more gears to give more responsive acceleration

As for why above 4k rpm ?

The DSG has shift points coded in to correspond to throttle position , engine load and torque demand . Try using 75% throttle application to kick down and it may only drop 1 or 2 gears instead of 3

I believe the button (which is there) allows for a 'kick down' when in manual mode. As you say, in D or S mode the throttle angle sensor, engine speed, road speed and kick down switch will feed an algorithm to determine if a gear change is needed. In 'M' mode though this doesn't happen (other than an upshift at RPMmax). However, if you are pushing on and suddenly need a bit more thrust, using the kick down switch essentially acts like a foot-operated downshift paddle, so you get a downshift at WOT for maximum thrust.

 

[Zaco95]

However, if you are pushing on and suddenly need a bit more thrust, using the kick down switch essentially acts like a foot-operated downshift paddle, so you get a downshift at WOT for maximum thrust.

Doing this in manual though most of the time it puts you in the wrong gear so you don't always get the max amount of power that could be available.