"It's not easy being green" - Biodiesel

[slimjim]

Sweet, will start collecting it then

Anyone know if it has a shelf life? Like you have to convert it within a month of it being used?

 

[ToledoSteve]

Hope none of those Customs and excise people read this, but a close friend of mine used to run both Landrover and Rover (2.0SDI) on Sainsbury,s best cooking oil, didn,t matter if it was olive oil or what, I suppose power was down some but it was never noticeable, the rover used to blast down to London regularly on cooking oil, and he didn,t hang about either, all you got was a chip shop smell from the exhaust, No smoke when revved either. Well he showed me that my 110TDI would run on it too, so I,m keepinf it in mind if there is a fuel strike again. (by the way that Rover car is still going strong two years on and still runs on cooking oil now and then (poor owner). Believe me I could not tell the difference between running on diesel and running on cooking oil in my 110TDI.

 

[slimjim]

As you are "obviously" speaking hypothetically...

Where did you get 50L of oil from without arousing suspision?

 

[Nyteshade]

from The Controlled Waste Regulations 1992

Waste not to be treated as household waste
3.—(1) Waste of the following descriptions shall not be treated as household waste for the purposes of section 33(2) (treatment, keeping or disposal of household waste within the curtilage of a dwelling)—
(a) any mineral or synthetic oil or grease;
(b) asbestos; and
(c) clinical waste.

The regs are a bit confusing to say the least

 

[Nyteshade]

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/by-prods/pdf/uco-leaflet251104.pdf
See paragraph 5.... it seems defra supports the use of waste cooking oil for this purpose.

 

[muddyboots]

Hope none of those Customs and excise people read this, but a close friend of mine used to run both Landrover and Rover (2.0SDI) on Sainsbury,s best cooking oil, didn,t matter if it was olive oil or what, I suppose power was down some but it was never noticeable, the rover used to blast down to London regularly on cooking oil, and he didn,t hang about either, all you got was a chip shop smell from the exhaust, No smoke when revved either. Well he showed me that my 110TDI would run on it too, so I,m keepinf it in mind if there is a fuel strike again. (by the way that Rover car is still going strong two years on and still runs on cooking oil now and then (poor owner). Believe me I could not tell the difference between running on diesel and running on cooking oil in my 110TDI.

Important note: You might get away using straight vegetable oil oil in older-generation diesels - but NOT IN PD engines.

For PDs, the best option is to make/use good quality biodiesel.
The other option is to use a vegetable oil conversion kit which heats the veggy oil up before it's supplied to the intermediate pump and engine, and also purge the lines of veggy oil before the engine is shut down. There are 2 or 3 companies supplying these now, but they require a twin-tank conversion and a heat exchanger to be fitted somewhere near the engine (which is going to be a challenge in a crowded engine bay like the Mk4 Ibiza). From what I can see, PD veggy oil conversions are still in their early days with regards to how many miles have been covered.

 

[slimjim]

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/by-prods/pdf/uco-leaflet251104.pdf
See paragraph 5.... it seems defra supports the use of waste cooking oil for this purpose.

Cheers babe...

SERIOUSLY looking into this now. There is a guy who runs a biodiesel website and has a licence to transport waste oil. All you do is contact him, dive him your details, then he puts you on his licence, and you are covered

£700ish for the kit you need but it should pay for itself in 12 months with the fuel im useing at the moment!

 

[Nyteshade]

Cheers babe...

SERIOUSLY looking into this now. There is a guy who runs a biodiesel website and has a licence to transport waste oil. All you do is contact him, dive him your details, then he puts you on his licence, and you are covered

£700ish for the kit you need but it should pay for itself in 12 months with the fuel im useing at the moment!

So you are planning to convert it yourself?

 

[slimjim]

So you are planning to convert it yourself?

Yup, going to a demonstration in a couple of weeks. I will be able to decide how much hassle it is then.

 

[Nyteshade]

Yup, going to a demonstration in a couple of weeks. I will be able to decide how much hassle it is then.

Question is does the place where you are going to do the conversion need to have any kind of license?

 

[slimjim]

Question is does the place where you are going to do the conversion need to have any kind of license?

Nope

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/yourenv/857406/1173616/?version=1&lang=_e

As long as it's for personal use.

 

[Nyteshade]

Nope

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/yourenv/857406/1173616/?version=1&lang=_e

As long as it's for personal use.

Statutory Instrument 1994 No. 1056
The Waste Management Licensing Regulations 1994

SCHEDULE 3
Regulations 1(3) and 17


ACTIVITIES EXEMPT FROM WASTE MANAGEMENT LICENSING

3. The carrying on of any of the following operations—

(ii) waste oil; or

(c) the secure storage of waste oil at the place where it is produced for a period not exceeding twelve months if the waste oil is intended to be submitted to an operation covered by the exemption conferred by sub-paragraph (a) above;

I agree.. I think you would be ok.

 

[slimjim]

Imagine that.... I have actually done some real research

 

[Nyteshade]

Imagine that.... I have actually done some real research

Well done......give yourself a blue smartie. :mwah:

 

[slimjim]

Well done......give yourself a blue smartie. :mwah:

Rather than doing my research on the seat forum

 

[Nyteshade]

Rather than doing my research on the seat forum

merely penetration testing.....


good research is widespread and varied.

 

[basstard]

jim, now that you english burocrat can sleep peaceful since you're ok with the law [in italy we've been governed by mafia over the last 5 years so don't think it's a REAL prob if I run my car on bio,,,] I'd like to give you my suggestions [not that they're worth much more than 2p]:

1-you need to filter the **** at 20 microns or more if you can,,, but filtering it at 20 microns is quite difficult, let alone doing more,,,

2-better if you can find non-hydrogenated oil [kinda hard]

3-bacteria is quite a big issue with diesel/veg oil so you can't shelf it for a long time,,, I'd be worried to use some that waited more than 2-3 weeks,,,

4-water + disposed oil =

5-the only REAL issue I didn't overcome here is oil viscosity: our fine injectors don't like the thickness of the veg oil so the pump [Bosch VP-37 on our 110s] is stressed more,,, so if you need to rebuild the pump after say 1 year then all the savings go down the toilet,,, possible solutions I've thought:
-get bigger nozzles for the injectors, so the holes are bigger and the pump does less work to push oil,,,
-pour anti-diesel-freeze stuff at every fill up [you should still be saving],,, this stuff basically reduces diesel viscosity and therefore gelification on low temps,,, this means that at normal spring/summer temps it can get veg oil to normal diesel viscosity,,, [this obvisouly needs to be tested for quantities/mixing etc.]
-just dilute veg oil with normal diesel and wait for the warmer temps to begin raising veg oil percentage [20°C+ at the moment in roma should do ]
-buy a kit like this and empty your beloved wallet,,,

 

[Sooty torques]

Hi guys and gals,
Late to the party, so just ignore my inane ramblings if you've thought of / researched this, but just wondered if you'd considered the effect that 100% bio diesel can have on fuel lines and stuff...?

Need to check carefully - far as I'm aware, newer VW-sourced kit is OK for 100% stuff, but older models it's a no-no... rots away gaskets, pipework, seals and stuff. Whether this is also true for 100% chip-fat I don't know. Just be safe otherwise you could be hit with a big bill.

 

[basstard]

depends on what you cosider as 'old',,,
Here's an example of a 100% SVO run vw jetta [our bora] with a non pd tdi in us version [our old 90hp],,, that's what I consider as 'old' since at least here there's none running an older design engine,,,

 

[slimjim]

The way im looking at it is .... if it can save me $$$ a month, it will be worth doing it.

Pro's:
My non-PD engine will take 100% bio-diesel, with no damage.
Will be a LOT cheaper than current diesel prices. Even if I have to pay 20ppl for oil and 27.7ppl to Gordon :w4nk: Brown.

Con's:
£700-£800 outlay
Time spent collecting the waste oil
Time spent converting to bio-diesel
Disposal of Glycerine
Space in garage

The outlay isn't too bad. The thing im worried about most is, am I going to have to spend 4 hours a week collecting waste oil, and also 4 hours a week converting the oil?

That means 8ish or so hours a week. I.E. one working day. So I may as well work another day and earn more than enough money to cover the diesel I use to get to work and back in the week.

But a man does need a hobby ....





oh, and Sooty Tourques, the fuel lines and "stuff" are not effected on a non PD. Apparently the biodiesel acts as a cleaner, and LOTS of crap from your lines and tank can clog up your filters, which is why the reccomend you run 50% to start with and CARRY filters and equiptment to replace them with you for the first few weeks, in case they get so clogged up they need to be changed.

I have no idea on PD engines, but I have heard they are totally different, basstard knows more, ask him about PD engines