huge issue on 59 fr

[unyonion]

Hi, could I get some help please...
59 plate petrol fr, revision model 30k miles.
Upon trying to start car I got clunking and hollow sound like when you have no plugs in cylinders and turn it over. Sort of started with a diesel sounding noise then went off after a few seconds.
AA called and sounds like it ticks upon turn over but nothing else, guy thought sounded like no compression so recovered to garage.
There were no problems 2 hours before when I drove it, car is not at all thrashed, Car was parked on a hill sloping 30° down on passenger side, Oil was just above minimum.

Garage looked and said a cam is not in correct position so looks like the chain has skipped but it has no play in it. they are pulling head off etc to see if damage inside on valves etc.

Anyone got any thoughts as to how/why this could have happened? Also are the valves non-interference so should be ok or bent to buggery?!

How does the chain skip and the cam move? Help as I'm thinking it's gonna be BAD NEWS!

Thanks for any help or suggestions guys, mark

 

[MJ]

Why don't they do a compression check before they remove the head? And scan for faults.

Seems a very drastic jump to just rip the head off.

And yes they are valve benders.

 

[Marshall]

Is this a petrol 211bhp?

If it is there's an extremely common problem with the timing chain tensioner.
Vw are replacing engines for free because of this.
When I was on the mk6 golf forum there was loads of failures.
They only happen on startup as the tensioner is supposed to hold the tension on the chain until oil pressures there.

 

[unyonion]

It is indeed a 211bhp tsi petrol,

MJ they have done a compression check and 0 on all cylinders, guess my valves are like wet spaghetti now then!

Marshall sounds exactly like my issue, I rang seat for a second opinion and they said "it could be low oil pressure on the hydraulic tensioner" so maybe they do know about it happening?

Guess I should ring seat and ask if it is a known issue and try to get them to take it in..
And get the garage to stop working on it, hopefully seat won't give some excuse like a second party have taken the engine apart so we're not liable etc.

Hopefully seat will replace for free if they know about it... fingers crossed

Thanks for the help guys, mark

 

[Marshall]

Any news Mark?

 

[MJ]

Yeah in curious of this myself

 

[Dopedpanda]

Is this a petrol 211bhp?

If it is there's an extremely common problem with the timing chain tensioner.
Vw are replacing engines for free because of this.
When I was on the mk6 golf forum there was loads of failures.
They only happen on startup as the tensioner is supposed to hold the tension on the chain until oil pressures there.

"extremely common" is the wrong word mate;

More like "extremely rare" even the golfmk6 crowd will say that, besides the one´s trolling the site.

This is the first Seat i have heard off, i have asked 3 different seat shops before buying my own 2.0 CCZB, and they have never sold a tensioner, let alone a chain to one of them.

Even the audi/VW shop besides me (they have also seat/skoda, but there are alot more golf 5/6/passat/tiguan/scirocco than seats with this engine) they have only seen it once. Not like i will call that; "yep, thats another one down the drain, we do at least 5 every week of them, no worries, we have a new crate engine standing ready for situations like that"

To the thread starter;

It sounds very much like the tensioner have gone bad, don´t accept a valve/head job, you need a new engine, these engines will damage the bottom end upon impact (VAG`s own words)

 

[Marshall]

On the mk6 golf Gti forum there's been at least 6 or 7 in a few months and they are the ones we hear about!!
The tensioner has been revised several times to cure the problem.
It seems common around 50k miles and people on the forum above are paying for the job to be done out of their own pocket to prevent failure.
I'd say that speaks volumes.

 

[unyonion]

Ok update, independant garage had spent 6 hours taking apart, diagnosed the hydraulic tensioner was to blame, it had slipped (for no apparent reason) and then one tooth had snapped off and two ground a little, the inlet camshaft had slipped due to no tension and a couple of teeth had ground. They did however wonder how this happened as the chain had normal tension when they tested it before taking apart?

Garage had contacted their supplier (TPS I think) for a new tensioner and asked how many in stock; they have 30 of the 'new' redesigned tensioners on the shelf and when asked how many have you been selling they responded with "they have been flying off the shelf and we are struggling to keep up supply"

So I guess as (apparently the garage said) they are the main supplier to VAG group it is becoming a major problem I guess.
As said earlier car was perfectly fine 2 hours before no rattling noises or anything untoward on mt 30mph drive 1mile up the road...

The SEAT service agent mentioned it was his first failure from the tensioner but they have been replacing quite a few from noise etc.

Car is now at SEAT (£240 down from original garages charge of 4 hours to help me out and £48 recovery to get 1/2 mile down the road )

SEAT checked, said hydraulic tensioner had failed, sent off info to SEAT uk/spain where ever it goes to see on the outcome.

I will let you know on just how much damage I have and if SEAT are going ot help out/pay for/or refuse on this issue, I really do not have £2k to do a rebuild...

Mark

 

[Marshall]

I really do hope they come good for you on this.
Just out of curiosity has your car done around 50k?

 

[m4rtin]

If TPS said there is a 'new' redesigned tensioner then that says it all to me, seeing as TPS was setup and is owned by VAG.

 

[towcester vag]

not had any issues myself but have heard about some failures through the dealer network
whats happening with the VAG engines these days
injectors/oil pump drives/cam chains on several engines/egr/dpf/throttle bodies/fuel pumps
they used to be so reliable before the 2.0 ltr came out in 54 plate
give me a old Passat/Golf anyday they were so reliable

 

[unyonion]

Hi, car done 32k 4yrs 1 month old, does 6 miles to nursery and 3to work by my wife, no noises of loose chain or anything what so ever so bit of a shock!!..
Seat Kidderminster have sent off to uk/Spain where ever for 'goodwill' (not holding my breath) takes... 6 days for reply, no courtesy cars for a week so stuck with a mini, car seat n 5 of us to school/nursery/work n back... grrr!
Got seat service history up to 22k 1/2012, then missed the anniversary date as waiting for service indicator.. 10/2013 service on 32k at independent garage, so that's not going to go for me in goodwill
Will let you know when I know more

 

[Marshall]

You'll get some goodwill but the service history may have an influence on the amount.
You don't get any warning like loose chain etc as the hydraulic side if the tensioner works fine, the problem is the part of the tensioner which holds the chain tight whilst the engines off and cranking.
They do know about it and I'd push for at least 75% goodwill on parts and labour but realistically they should stump the whole lot.
Don't be a push over and stand firm.
Is your car at the dealer now? Is this the dealer you bought it from?
If so this will help.

 

[unyonion]

Car is at dealership, bought from Bmw as swap for my 3 series. Had good dealings with the dealership on warranty and services before so on good terms.
Will fight for as much as I can, hopefully it will come back to me soon as been a week.

 

[MJ]

TBH goodwill claims are usually processed and returned within the day, service history and loyalty to the brand play a big part in their decision and percentage paid out.

Kicking up a stick with customer care also seems to do the trick or some clever publishing of the fault in certain places sometimes gets results.

 

[unyonion]

Now I am always up for a laugh but the phone call I had yesterday was just PURE comedy value........

£6420

No goodwill

Fan f'in tastic!!

 

[unyonion]

Anyone with what would be best to do for a written complaint with evidence of seat knowing about the fault Etc. Would be great to have so I can put as much detail as possible to support my claim. Guys going into golf no6 forum would be an idea as well if anyone could direct me if they know a thread.

Also is there by any way of claiming on car insurance for this, way out idea but that's nearly written off the car?

Thanks, mark

 

[LeonCR]

What's the reason for no good will? Did you buy the car new or used ?

 

[Marshall]

Here you go mate
http://www.golf gti forum .co.uk/index.php?topic=260743.0
Without the spaces
There are others on there too.
It shouldn't matter who bought the car new or who serviced it.
Their engine has a known problem and they should hold their hands up and fix it.
Seat uk try not to pay for anything nowadays.
Good luck