Hpfp seizing on revo 2+

[Poverty]

I seem to recall JonnyC swapped out his APR pump for a KMD because the APR pump had issues. He may be able to verify....

@ Owen - You got yours fited by Jim, but cant remember if he supplied it or if it came from JKM. I seem to recall it may also be KMD, but it could be Autotech.

In a thread today he said he was running autotech trouble free. I too thought he had a APR but he didnt mention anything about a APR pump, and he has said to me before that he has never had pump issues? Suppose I can just ask him.

Off the top of my head I cant think of any APR pump users with this flat spot, but APR pump users are few and far inbetween so inconclusive really.

 

[leebingate]

I see mine came with grease! Cant remember when I fitted mine but it was about 6-8 months ago at a guess

I bought mine from NAMOTORSPORT on the 12/08/09, and it wasn't supplied with the grease possibly they still had the old kits in stock

 

[reesy]

Guys

Just to update you regarding this issue

I had previously posted a thread regarding my car cutting out with a low fuel/pressure, my local vag specialist Euro Performance, with great guidance from Kevin at REVO. Painstakely checked over data logging for a number of days:-

The possible issues intitially thought were

fuel filter blocked - checked and replaced pretty clogged

fuel pump faulty - removed and checked all looked fine cam follower replaced just as precaution

hpfp seizing - no markings on the internals and appeared to be working fine

They carried on data logging and eventually noticed that on acceleration, the fuel rail when reaching 130 bar fuel pressure. The fuel rail sensor was shutting down the car into limp mode or even stalling the car. It was established the that sensor was only capable of 130 bar of pressure and, on the logs once it requested 134 bar, the sensor would shut it down.

They then ordered a RS4 fuel rail sensor which is capable of 2.2 bar of pressure (I think), once fitted it allowed the required pressure to then be supplied. It was then on the test runs and data logging, that the hpfp had seized up first time. They had followed the original instuctions from kmd and used engine oil to lube the internals.

But on me checking the various forums and speaking to kmd etc, it was quickly established that they Now supply moly grease with the internals. Kmd stated that this was just to assist the internals to bed in, but other users established that the internals were drying out. I believe that this is due to the temperture that the internals are reaching, under high stress which in turn is burning up the engine oil lubing them.

Where as moly grease works to a higher temperture, continuing the lube process.

I have my car back now and all appears fine, touch wood but I will keep everyone posted with any further issues.

Reesy

 

[Poverty]

Do you know at what rpm the car seemed to stall around? Oh and would you have a part number for the rs4 sensor?

 

[reesy]

Hi mate

It was happening around 5 rpm, I will update you with the part number later when I pop to the garage. I have to say though when cut outs started was after I had my itg intake added coming from a carbon speed cai with a pipercross filter. My settings prior to this was b9t4f9 and it ran like a dream, and felt very alive and rapid. When the issue arose after the itg was fitted I changed my setting to b8t5f7, just in case the settings were to fault.

I have taken on a number of runs now since receiving the car back, and have to say it felt like was slugish compared to it prior to carbon speed intake. I have just altered the settings back to my original settings b9t4f9, and it is now flying as previously. Can't say that the itg has provided any gains though in torq or bhp.

Could this be to the car adapting to the new intake, and if so how long does it normally take or do you have to ammend anything in vagcom to accomandate the new intake

Reesy

 

[micky 32]

I bought my autotech second hand and have now approx 40k on it with no probs at all.

 

[Poverty]

ordered some castrol molygrease from opie oils, will be stripping my hpfp down shortly.

 

[DanGB]

ordered some castrol molygrease from opie oils, will be stripping my hpfp down shortly.

Would be iterested in having a look mate

 

[Poverty]

Would be iterested in having a look mate

as in piccies?

 

[warren_cox]

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10965.0.html

 

[Backdraft]

I dont see how moly grease will help keep the pump lubricated?? The stuff in generally used in bolt fitting and slow to medium bearings whereas the pumps run very fast and have fuel and oil travelling around them that will just remove the grease from the pump.

The stuff that comes with the KMD pumps is just engine assembly lube.

 

[reesy]

I have spoken to kmd and they now supply their internals with moly grease made ARP, they stated that it is supplied to assist the internals bed in.

I don't think it has ever been recorded to the temperature the internals reach, under heavy load or working at 100%, due to this it is believed that the engine oil is being burnt off the internals causing lack of lube and seizing up.

I never had an issue regarding the pump when I just had my carbon speed intake, probably due to the internals never working to their maximum. But after installing my itg this is when the internals seized. Due to the itg causing the internals to work to it's maximum !

My vag specialist dismantled the pump on 3 occassions covering it in engine oil every time, but after testing it under hard driving for a period of time it would seize, this is more than likely to the internals exceeding the engine oils temperature limits and burning off.

Moly grease can work efficiently at much higher temperatures, and since it has been greased with castrol moly grease I haven't had one issue.

Reesy

 

[Backdraft]

Good info Reesy. Always been advised against using moly on that sort of application. You cant use it on engine bearings or on cams etc.

 

[DanGB]

as in piccies?

No as in eyes

 

[Poverty]

No as in eyes

Looking to do it this weekend maybe, is the grease arrives in time, I havent had a confirmation email fro them though

 

[DanGB]

Ok cool, could be **** weather though..

 

[Poverty]

Ok cool, could be **** weather though..

yeah it looking that way

 

[cupra-k1]

yeah it looking that way

Did you get this yet mate, or waiting for the follower now?

 

[vRSy]

In a thread today he said he was running autotech trouble free. I too thought he had a APR but he didnt mention anything about a APR pump, and he has said to me before that he has never had pump issues? Suppose I can just ask him.

Off the top of my head I cant think of any APR pump users with this flat spot, but APR pump users are few and far inbetween so inconclusive really.

danishmkv on the gti forum has all THE APR KIT I believe, and he has a monumental dip at 5200rpm http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13171.0.html

 

[Arin@APR]

Molly Grease will do nothing to prevent your HPFP from seizing. Poor quality HPFP sieze for many different reasons such as design, manufacturing defects, contamination, broken or leaking seals, etc. Often the only way to see this is to install the pump in your vehicle and pray nothing bad happens. Sometimes you have a bad reused seal that leaks fuel over time. You'll never see this happening till you find your oil is diluted with fuel.

Back to molly Grease - since most people clean oil off their cam followers to check for wear before installing a new HPFP, APR suggests coating the follower surface with molly grease for an extra layer of protection upon the first startup. direct cam on cam follower without a layer of oil or grease in between is less than ideal as one could imagine!

They then ordered a RS4 fuel rail sensor which is capable of 2.2 bar of pressure (I think), once fitted it allowed the required pressure to then be supplied.

If I understand you correctly you are speaking about the Rail Pressure Sensor located on far left hand side of the High pressure fuel rail and not the rail relief valve located on the right side. You are speaking about the actual sensor, correct?

YOU DON'T WANT TO SWAP THIS PART*

* There are several different versions of this part. Some are simply revisions of the current part in your car - you can use those, but others are totally different versions that read completely differently. Installing a miss matched part will give you a boat load of headaches. The ECU will not be calibrated to read this sensor correctly. It will report the wrong rail pressure. It will either report too high or too low. This may cause you to look for other 'issue' while the real issue is simply a mismatched part. I'd highly suggest you not change this part with a mismatched part.