front wheel alignment

rocketmanbdl

Guest
Hi, i'm new to this forum so hi everyone! I collected my 06 plate ibiza fr tdi on sataday and noticed it pulled strongly to the left both under acceleration and normal cruising, is this normal? Took it to my local garage today to get the tracking done and it was out so got it sorted. Just been out in it, when I got back I had a look at the front wheels and they both seem to be pointing slightly out, i dnt know if its my eyes or wat? Is this normal??? Any help in the matter greatly appreciated
 

muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
It's very difficult to tell by looking at a car whether the wheels are aligned, it's very deceiving and you can easily convince yourself they're pointing in different directions.

On a long, straight level road - if the car stays straight if you lift you hands off the wheel then that's a good sign.

But as Nath said, keep your eyes on the inner tyre edges as a lot of MK4s wear them badly. You'll have to park up with steering on full lock to see properly.
 

rocketmanbdl

Guest
Took it back to my local tyre exhaust etc garage today and they agreed to do a geometry test on all the wheels for free which was good. Drove off after with high hopes but on my local A road it still pulls to the left. Gonna take it back to the seat garage i give up lol
 

muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
First bit of advice - tyre and exhaust places like Kwik-fit etc etc generally aren't very clued up on geometry....and on many occasions I've been they've looked up setting for the wrong car anyway. All they test for is tracking, they probably don't test camber/castor etc.
Also, your Seat garage will most likely just farm it off to the nearest tyre/exhaust place!

If you want it sorting properly, I'd suggest taking it to an alignment specialist who knows what they are doing.
Whereabouts in the country are you ?
 

NicksGotAFR

Active Member
May 31, 2007
55
0
South London
my 07 FR does the same when am goin slowish. spoke to the stealer when put in 4 10000 mile service, they reckon the cars VERY camber sensitive, specially wit the big fr alleys on. Also id have to send away to get it propaly checkd out cuz they cudnt do it on site..... f**k that!! seems fine at higher speeds! lol
 

sooty22

sooty22
Dec 28, 2006
726
0
nera richmond north yorks
i have been having this roblem from when i git the car 2 years ago, depite all the extra power im running i onlygret about 4500miles to a set before the innrer edges are totaly balld.... i have had it tracked several places then took it to a specialist 4 wheel alignment place who also set it again had track rods tie rods polly bushes then cupra ones and it still keeps on wearing and suggestions?
 

Aimez

Active Member
this is intersting, do people suggest with fitting coilovers, new bushes and new wheels and tyres to take the car to a specialist place after such mods? I waqnt to do all these things in future, never even had tracking done on a car is it expensive?
 

Deleted member 13581

Guest
I had mine done for £50 from my local specialists after i put the coilovers on. 4-wheel laser allignment.

I thought this was very reasonable as it stops spending £100+ on new tyres every few months when the insides start wearing away quick.
 

Deleted member 13581

Guest
This sounds very strange. My tyres have been even wearing since i fitted the coilovers and got it done.

Have you taken it back to them and told them you are still having problems? They may check it for free for you.
 

bozzy_beezerFR

Guest
i've had this problem since day 1 with my FR stealers put it down to road camber but im not convinced had it tracked several times but no different after two months of crap i smashed my car sideways into a curb ripping the front drivers wheel off aswell as trashin the complete underneath of my car needed.....2 new wheels, control arm, wheels arch, subframe, brakes, abs sensor, driveshaft, 2 wishbones and a whoooole bunch of other stuff done to it got it back 3 months later and goes straight as a dime......so the moral of this story is to do the same....(joke) it would've been worth it appart from havin to drive around in a ford fiesta for 3 months as a coutosey car.lmao! ooh and my next years insurance is £3500 fully comp as im only 20.
 

dannyboy89

Guest
on the fr and cupra models the wheels do point outwards very slightly as this helps with stability on the road when cornering fast, its common with all top range cars of any make!
 

JPS3290

Dirty Diesel
Jun 6, 2003
438
0
Durham
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On most cars the front wheels generally Toe out and the rears should Toe in. So depending how much Toe in/out your running the fronts may look like they are angled out slightly and the rears should look like they point in over to prevent the rear stepping out as easily.

This means the fronts will normally wear the inner edges down and the rears will wear more on the outside edge, but only dependant on how much Toe In/Out they are running and also what the camber/castor is set up like.

My STI generally gets 15/16k miles from a set of front tyres as they go bald on the inner edge with 3-4mm left else where. I can easily have this adjusted to prevent it but it will negatively affect steering response, turn in and grip.

I've heard horror stories on here with Cupra's eating the front tyres so I am keeping an eye on mine. Clocked up 5700 miles since September and looking fine so far.

Does anyone know if the Camber on Ibiza Cupra's (TDI) are adjustable as standard or fixed ?
 

mexicorich

Newbie
Apr 17, 2006
261
0
Hartlepool
Very few cars run with any real degree of toe out and it certainlly doesn't help stability
A touch of toe in is more common as it does help stability and helps cars turn in better.
particularly crucial on cars that wear the insides of tyres......
Soild cupra bushes for back of wishbone and poly fronts is the best starting point
 
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Tom B

Active Member
Apr 2, 2002
4,710
16
Northampton
Northampton Motorsport are the best in town for wheel alignment, but it'll cost you around £90+VAT.

If you take it back to SEAT (I guess thats Motorvogue?) they'll take it next door to Scotts who don't have the best reputation in town!

My Cupra does exactly the same, I want to get it to TTS in Bedford but I don't think their £49.99 offer is on forever :(
 

JPS3290

Dirty Diesel
Jun 6, 2003
438
0
Durham
Visit site
Very few cars run with any real degree of toe out and it certainlly doesn't help stability
A touch of toe in is more common as it does help stability and helps cars turn in better.
particularly crucial on cars that wear the insides of tyres......
Soild cupra bushes for back of wishbone and poly fronts is the best starting point

Toe in only helps straight line stability, Toe out helps cornering. When a car accelerates generally on a straight road the car normally lifts which in turn has a slight affect on Toe out bring it in slightly. However you will find all racing cars and those who want good corning stability and turn in will use Toe Out on the front.

Search on the net for information. For e.g, Googles first hit:

"The toe setting on a particular car becomes a tradeoff between the straight-line stability afforded by toe-in and the quick steering response promoted by toe-out. Nobody wants their street car to constantly wander over tar strips-the never-ending steering corrections required would drive anyone batty. But racers are willing to sacrifice a bit of stability on the straightaway for a sharper turn-in to the corners. So street cars are generally set up with toe-in, while race cars are often set up with toe-out."

"If the car is set up with toe-out, however, the front wheels are aligned so that slight disturbances cause the wheel pair to assume rolling directions that do describe a turn. Any minute steering angle beyond the perfectly centered position will cause the inner wheel to steer in a tighter turn radius than the outer wheel. Thus, the car will always be trying to enter a turn, rather than maintaining a straight line of travel. So it's clear that toe-out encourages the initiation of a turn, while toe-in discourages it."

I agree a lot of cars are likely to use Toe In, but nowadays people are looking for good handling and a lot of these faster cars are more likely to be setup for cornering stability and turn in. After all, straight line speed will get you locked up easy these days where as if you can maintain a nice steady speed through the twisties while sticking to the limit it's much more fun ;)

As as mentioned about the rear Toe settings which generally are Toe In: Most road going cars will Be Toe in at rear as must people can recover from Under steer.Toe out on the rear will induce over steer which many drivers have an issue wth.

"With four-wheel independent suspension, the toe must also be set at the rear of the car. Toe settings at the rear have essentially the same effect on wear, directional stability and turn-in as they do on the front. However, it is rare to set up a rear-drive race car toed out in the rear, since doing so causes excessive oversteer, particularly when power is applied. Front-wheel-drive race cars, on the other hand, are often set up with a bit of toe-out, as this induces a bit of oversteer to counteract the greater tendency of front-wheel-drive cars to understeer."

As I said, Toe Out provides better turn in, response etc which is how a lot of hot hatches/performances car's are set up which is a compromise between comfort and running costs.

Quotes from http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
 
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