EA211 timing belt/water pump replacement.

Crossthreaded

Active Member
Apr 16, 2019
546
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No one is expected to drive cars these days without a drink to hand - or so it seems - a handy place to dump other things in though!

What was the nature of the gearbox failure you had, and how dramatic did it get, and did you get any warning?
I didn't pay extra to have the old box opened up because it was so obviously a catastrophic failure with lots of "glitter" in the drained oil indicating the internals were well contaminated with metallic particles. That said, from the noises, it's pretty obvious it was a final drive problem - ie. directly proportionate to road speed regardless of what gear was selected. I did suspect there was a very slight noise for some weeks before we set off south but it was so slight it was right at the edge of what you could hear and I wasn't convinced it wasn't just the very start of a wheel bearing. My better half couldn't hear anything wrong at all. I spoke with Alan at AVW who lives near me and he said that even if there was a problem he doubted it would be the box as they've never had one go wrong but had done a number of wheel bearings on them. I decided to risk it thinking a wheel bearing would be "fixable" at most garages - maybe involving us in a couple of days in a hotel if the worst came to the worst. The noise got no louder until we were around the Manchester/Birmingham area when it started to get louder and my Mrs said she agreed she thought she could just hear the noise I was talking about. I pulled into a service area and "experimented" in the lorry park by driving around in circles etc but at slow speed there was really little to hear and certainly none of the obvious wheel bearing symptoms like getting noisier when loaded up by swerving side to side.

by now it was getting on in the day and we were heading to my Daughter near Salibury Wilts so probably less than 100 miles to go although I was hearing the noise it wasn't yet "deafening" so I decided to just carry on and accept that the box was taking damage. Already I was guessing it was final drive from the way it was behaving so probably going to need, at the least, a complete rebuild. We made it to daughter's house and I rang the Salisbury SEAT garage who said they were so busy and flooded with customer cars that they couldn't even take it in for diagnosis for at least a fortnight - couldn't even offer to let me leave it with them as they had no space! Luckily my daughter's husband had not yet sold their old KIA (they bought an electric Skoda Enyaq and one of his friend was thinking of buying the old Skoda) so I drove that for the week we were there and parked the Ibiza outside their house. I did jack it up on the "suicide" jack and spin the wheels to double check for wheel bearings etc. All quiet except for slightly "graunchy" noises at the final drive.

So, expected at sister in law's for Easter down in North Devon, but what to do? rang the SEAT garage again and got the same reply - basically no chance! They did suggest a couple of local garages, general workshops, which I, reluctantly, tried - don't like using unknown small garages - but they were the same, absolutely stowed out and couldn't help. Then I rang Croyde SEAT in North Devon, as they had been so helpful with the battery a couple of years ago. No problem said Chris. If you can get it here we'll look at it on the Tuesday after Easter when they reopen for business. So I thought about what to do. The route, which I've driven often and know very well is down the A303, a fast main road but with many possible stopping places. Then onto the M5 but I know none of that section is "smart" so there's a hard shoulder to stop on and then off at Tiverton and over to Barnstaple on the north Devon Link Road, again a normal main road with stopping possible if needed. Always risky if you break down in the wrong place but I decided to risk it and rely on my all singing all dancing Green Flag cover if it really came down to it. Anyway the noise got steadily noisier but not so bad it sounded as if gear teeth were actually trying to jump out of the box! I drove quite slowly and gently, spending quite a lot of time cruising along at around 50 mph behind the large commercials - that way I wasn't actually holding anyone up. By the time we finally made it to Barnstaple there was a definite "air raid siren" quality to the noise. It's quite a few miles further on to Croyde and it was quite late so we decided to try to get to sister in law's abode in the hills outside Barnstaple which meant going up some quite steep hills which worried me. Strangely - or not - the box was much less noisy when pulling hard up the hills? I suppose the backlash in everything was being taken up with the load? Anyway we made it.

Next day, the Saturday before Easter, I rang Chris at the garage and he asked if I thought it would drive there? Only one way to find out, and by now I knew the box was "toast", so I drove it there, mostly down hill and on the flat, and left it with them. By lunchtime on the following Tuesday he'd rung to say they'd road tested the car and drained the transmission oil (which looked like it was full of "glitter"). They didn't consider the box to be repairable and a new box was needed and what would I like him to do. The rest is, as they say, history!

If I'd been at home I'd have pulled the box as soon as the louder noise became evident and might (but might not) have got away with rebuilding the final drive. However I know from past experience, once a box starts to run bearings like this - I'm assuming it was bearings, probably crown wheel from the nature of the noise - then little bits of metal (glitter) find themselves all round the other bearings, embed themselves in synchro rings, etc, etc and come back to "bite" you later so you really need to completely strip the transaxle, thoroughly clean everything, check everything and rebuild replacing all parts that show any signs of damage or wear. Now a days with labour costs as high as they are, unless you're doing it yourself, a complete reconditioned exchange 'box is the best solution. The only way I might have saved money would have been if I bought a locally recon'd 'box and got someone to help me with the removal and refitting and I'm really not sure if this old body is up to it any more! Anyway, the genuine VAG exchange box has a 2 year warranty which I very much doubt an indy reconditioning shop would give and I'll be selling the car before the 2 years is up. So it's all been a bit expensive but probably the best option considering the circumstances.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
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Oh yes, the way you fixed it was probably the best route.

I'm glad that the car remained mobile for you, I had considered the worst case scenario - ie bang and stopped at the side of a busy Motorway/Road.

Also good to hear that AVW have not found the need to buy in a container of new or re-con'd gearboxes for these cars - although that is cold comfort for you!

We were on holiday to Wales with my mate and his wife in his SAAB 96 back in maybe 1978, on the way home, round about Washington New Town, the final drive started making a lot of noise, from his past experience of owning a few SAAB 96s, he diagnosed that the thrust washer under the nut on the pinion had broken its tab and the self locking nut was unscrewing. So, Green Flag sent a flat bed out to take us back to my mate's lock up in Edinburgh, he was quite happy about this(!) as it saved quite a bit of cash in petrol!!! Next day he bought a new thrust washer and nut for the pinion at Belgrave Motors, and after work I joined up with him and we get the engine etc out and yes that was the issue, new thrust washer and nut on, car back together and that was that!

One thing I remember about that ride back home from Washington New Town was, the recovery driver had this big biscuit tin of cash that he used to pay for fuel - these were the days, maybe not!
 
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Crossthreaded

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Apr 16, 2019
546
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Like your pal, I suppose the big advantage that chaps like us have is years of listening to things that have gone wrong and knowing when it's something you are likely to get away with and when it's not - Bang and stop on a "smart" motorway is just not to be entertained as a possibility! Aint no substitute for experience as they say! I like to think that I'd have known when it was getting so bad that it was in danger of failing completely and so giving myself enough time to pull over at a convenient stopping place rather than keeping on pushing it until something broke catastrophically and the car was no longer mobile, even if the trip from sister in law's wee hamlet to Croyde Motors was probably too close to call!
 

rdraheim

Active Member
Jul 18, 2023
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Just jumping in here as a new owner of a SEAT.

I was reading the technical documentation on the EA211 engines and the lifespan of the timing belt is supposedly 210k km. Does anyone have any real world data? And then its inspection thereafter. Any info about the tensioners, etc...

It seems that the EA211 1.2 is pretty robust compared to the EA111 1.2. I'm on the fourth water pump on my EA111 (all leaking coolant out of the shaft bearing ... OEM lasted 50k, next was 85k, and now again at 151k).

I also went through a sheared bolt on the diff in the 6-speed 0AJ gearbox and had the unit replaced with a used LNY at 95k (clutch disc was down to the rivets as well, so a LuK 3-piece was only £60, so that was changed in parallel).

I see that the turbo wastegate actuator pivot connection looks rubbish on the early EA211 engines (been replaced on the use ride I bought already at 40k) and the water pumps seem to leak on these EA211 engines as well and if not sorted, take out the belt and overheat.

Have I missed anything on the EA211s that I should be aware of?

I'm still running the OEM timing kit on a 2011 EA111 1.2 TSI and it sounds fine, but the oil pump chain has a little rattle on startup it seems.
 

rdraheim

Active Member
Jul 18, 2023
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also, a "doubl- hexagonal socket" is used ... never heard it called that ... usually a triple-square or a XZN socket (XZN to signify the 12-points) ... thus, I guess "double-hexagonal" works and is as awkward as triple-square ... lol

anyways, nice video ... I'll just go with the periodic inspection unless anyone here has more real-world info ...

Screenshot 2023-07-18 at 14.24.07.png
 

RUM4MO

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Jun 4, 2008
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South Scotland
I think that you need to check the high pressure fuel rail fixing bolts, 4-off on EA211 engines built round about mid 2016 until some later point in that calendar year, so that probably means cars first reg'd from August 2016 onwards. There was a "non existant" issue on the Skoda controlled engine plant where incorrect torque was applied to these 4 bolts, it tends to be the most righthand side (looking forward) that shear first probably aggravated by the extra weight of the mounting of the pressure sensor on that end of that fuel rail - and the other end is fixed to the HP fuel pump, which will never move.

The water pump assembly on these engines, tends to have something in common to the EA888 family of engines, where the plastic housing for the pump and some thermostats are prone to warping - and so failure! The pump itself should end up having a long and easy life as its small dedicated drive belt is just driving it, unlike the earlier engines with the cambelt using the water pump as an idler effectively - and killing it with the extra belt loads.
 

RUM4MO

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Jun 4, 2008
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I'd rather replace the front end auxiliary belt every 8 years or 60K miles, saves any inconvenience - though maybe I'm just suggesting that as my wife's 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS is coming up for its year 8 service! I'm sure that the original change period for spark plugs was 4 years as the standard fit plugs are not Iridium tipped. Again 4 years for the air filter works for me, so I'll stick with that.
 

rdraheim

Active Member
Jul 18, 2023
84
16
I think that you need to check the high pressure fuel rail fixing bolts, 4-off on EA211 engines built round about mid 2016 until some later point in that calendar year, so that probably means cars first reg'd from August 2016 onwards. There was a "non existant" issue on the Skoda controlled engine plant where incorrect torque was applied to these 4 bolts, it tends to be the most righthand side (looking forward) that shear first probably aggravated by the extra weight of the mounting of the pressure sensor on that end of that fuel rail - and the other end is fixed to the HP fuel pump, which will never move.

The water pump assembly on these engines, tends to have something in common to the EA888 family of engines, where the plastic housing for the pump and some thermostats are prone to warping - and so failure! The pump itself should end up having a long and easy life as its small dedicated drive belt is just driving it, unlike the earlier engines with the cambelt using the water pump as an idler effectively - and killing it with the extra belt loads.
I guess that I should be OK for that HPR fixing issues based on the engine date.

I'll keep an eye on any coolant usage/leakage periodically as I pop the hood every week or so for a quick look.

Any news of this NZ recall that has listed for Audi EA211 engines as well ... but not the EA211s from other marques?

More info here about the 15E7 recall: https://uk-polos.net/viewtopic.php?t=71783

And here: https://www.volkswagenforum.co.uk/threads/2015-recall-camshaft-adjuster-pully.22449/
 

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rdraheim

Active Member
Jul 18, 2023
84
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I'd rather replace the front end auxiliary belt every 8 years or 60K miles, saves any inconvenience - though maybe I'm just suggesting that as my wife's 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS is coming up for its year 8 service! I'm sure that the original change period for spark plugs was 4 years as the standard fit plugs are not Iridium tipped. Again 4 years for the air filter works for me, so I'll stick with that.

Are you sure the EA211 plugs are not iridium tipped, they are on the EA111 engines ... but the service interval is 60k km (the EA111 1.2 has a single coil pack and HT leads that get destroyed by the turbo heat and often short to the cyl head and turbo manifold).

For the next oil change (I do 10k miles due to the turbo), I'll get the plugs and air/cabin filter swapped as well. No fuel filter (pump-integrated) on the EA211 engines it seems.
 

rdraheim

Active Member
Jul 18, 2023
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also, I never got to 60k miles on my EA111 engine for that belt-interval as the water pump failed every single time before that interval and I always had the belt changed at the same time.

the garage even charged less labour and they've done the pump on this car a few times and got faster on it (real time and not book time).

1.2h this past time.
 

RUM4MO

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Jun 4, 2008
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No not on the 1.2TSI - at least the ones built around 2015, but, the later ie 2019 1.0TSI engines DO have Iridium tipped spark plugs, I replaced them on my daughter's 2019 Arona just because even although I knew it had Iridium tipped spark plugs, in the absence of good/true/correct service info, I had read that it was still 4 years, so as their VG Group Indie that serviced that car back in late April said "plugs are due officially but as your mileage is low we will leave it until next year" - I chose to change them when she visited us last week.
 

rdraheim

Active Member
Jul 18, 2023
84
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No not on the 1.2TSI - at least the ones built around 2015, but, the later ie 2019 1.0TSI engines DO have Iridium tipped spark plugs, I replaced them on my daughter's 2019 Arona just because even although I knew it had Iridium tipped spark plugs, in the absence of good/true/correct service info, I had read that it was still 4 years, so as their VG Group Indie that serviced that car back in late April said "plugs are due officially but as your mileage is low we will leave it until next year" - I chose to change them when she visited us last week.
Geez ... so VW AG, and the engine plant in Mladá Boleslav has downgraded to non-iridium plugs ... ugh ... the OEM plugs are in with 48k as far as I can tell ...

do you recommend switching to a platinum plug with a 30k mile interval then (every 3 oil changes).
 

RUM4MO

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Jun 4, 2008
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Yes that was always what I found, ie when you needed cambelts replacing every 5 years, the advice was just to change the now removed auxiliary belt - and the coolant.

I just service our cars every 12 months which means roughly 6K miles on the Polo.

Fuel filter, there is still an external fuel filter after the low pressure or lift pump, but it only needs replacing if thought to be causing an issue due to blockage, UK fuel outlets tend to be well maintained it seems - well relative to some other countries in the world.

I di used to replace the fuel filter on cars with higher pressure electric fuel pumps, as it was these fuel pumps that created most of the junk that needed keeping away from the injectors, but with these direct injection engines with the very high pressure mechanical fuel pump that live just behind the injectors, I don't feel the need to do that job.

Actually for my wife's 2002 Polo with the horrible 1.4 16V 75PS engine, I bought a replacement filter, then bought a replacement fuel regulator to connect to it - then just kept it in a safe place - we moved that car on, from new, at 13 years and 105K miles with the original filter on it! My old 2000 Passat 4Motion got its filter replaced at 8 years and again at 12 years as one of the sealing washers got attacked by road salt, very annoying, I smothered the ends of the 3rd filter in Waxoyl to stop that happening again!
 

rdraheim

Active Member
Jul 18, 2023
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honestly, we seem to be a heavy-usage household now, with the VW AG engines driving about 30-40k miles/year and thus the car is in the garage every 3 months for an oil change (the older Golf has gone through an entire front suspension).
 

RUM4MO

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Jun 4, 2008
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South Scotland
I'd check which spark plugs are used on your age of EA211 1.2TSI and just replace with the same, it may well be that by the time your engine was built, and it will probably be a revised and so different engine code to my wife's 2015 one, that VW Group had moved onto Iridium again. In the past, non Iridium meant replace at 4 years or X,000 miles, Iridium meant replace at 6 years and Y,000 miles.
 

rdraheim

Active Member
Jul 18, 2023
84
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ugh, more expensive platinum on the EA211 (£15/each) and less expensive iridium on the EA111 (£10/each) it seems based on a quick online analysis.

thanks for the heads-up.

at least I don't need to worry about HT leads/plug wires on the EA211 :D
 
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