Cupra R Remapped Vs Focus ST Standard

[QU4RESMA]

Hi All,

Just bought myself an LCR 225, had it mapped on Tuesday by JabbaSport stage1.
Last night, pulled up against a standard Focus ST who kept up with me until 4th gear!

I know the guy, he's running stock power. Zero MODS!

What's going on? Should he be able to do this?!
I did notice a clutch slip in 3rd... would i be losing that much power with a clutch on its way out?

Only mods on my LCR are Forge Splitter (fully re-circ at present)
Pipercross Viper Induction
Stage 1 Map.

Any comments would be much appreciated!

 

[JamJay]

Did you get it on a rolling road, what BHP & Torque readings did it give out? Any boost leaks? Clutch slip will sap power for as long as it's happening in the rev range, the power can't be transmitted to the road while that is happening. In short, you should have had the edge yes but real world differences are small, you might have a TRUE 250-255bhp but it is just 25-30bhp more than the Focus. Those are peak figures mind you and that power can be delivered in different manners meaning that you could be on low boost while the focus was on high boost.

The Focus ST-2 was actually lighter than the LCR in both 3dr (60kg) & 5dr (10kg) versions, the ST-3 was heavier in both 3dr (20kg) & 5dr (70kg) which can make a difference either way. You then need to take into account driver weight, amount of junk in the car & most importantly driver ability. To go twice as fast as a car of similar setup & weight, you'd need twice the power & be able to transmit it...that's physics.

 

[Mo Arif]

Good question good answer

Need more details though

I have a fair few snobby ST-2/ST-3 owners around me......

 

[QU4RESMA]

It was a really good answer! Thanks.
It was too close to call, a very short drag race, with so many traffic lights, we came to a stop very quickly.
I know my 1st gear has a fair amount of lag in comparison to his ST.
JamJay, been looking at your build thread - THUMBS UP! Looks excellent bud.

On the subject of power loss, which clutch should i get and from where?

 

[_chris_]

From owning both, i currently have the focus. if both were standard i would say the focus is quicker so im not suprised it kept up. the focus feels a bit sluggish off the line but once its moving it feels pretty quick.

 

[DaNnY_LaD]

Don't forget the 2.5 cylinder engine so has more of a power curve compared to the 1.8...which peaks and drops off that's what the mapped k04 do......

Have a look at your dyno graph and see what your holding at 5.5krpm....from memory it will be around 230-40bhp or so....maybe less without supporting mods....

The st produce to make that power throughout its power curve....a lcr that s 287bhp doesn't mean its 287bhp at say 5.5krpm...as its already dead and dropped off...

 

[Applemobile]

N/A is superior. /thread.

 

[Mo Arif]

N/A is superior. /thread.

How so Mr Apple ? ..... because your dumping one in your car and all of a sudden your opinions changed and N/A became superior ?

a forced induction car must have had some sort of appeal for you to purchase a car that came with it to begin with?

 

[leons_ leon]

How so Mr Apple ? ..... because your dumping one in your car and all of a sudden your opinions changed and N/A became superior ?

a forced induction car must have had some sort of appeal for you to purchase a car that came with it to begin with?

My mate has an ST that is stock when my car was stock i couldnt keep with it but now mine is stage 2 its a different story

 

[_chris_]

N/A is superior. /thread.

both cars are turbo, unless the original post was on about a st170, then i would say something is wrong!

 

[_chris_]

My mate has an ST that is stock when my car was stock i couldnt keep with it but now mine is stage 2 its a different story

wait till he does similar mods to yours

 

[QU4RESMA]

So in short a remapped LCR can only keep up or edge a Focus ST standard? WOW

N/A cars have their advantages but its all about the Turbocharged beasts!

For E.G - My old Golf GTi running approx 210bhp Vs Golf Mk4 R32... My Golf was quicker.

 

[QU4RESMA]

Original post is about the ST 225

 

[leons_ leon]

wait till he does similar mods to yours

Not too bothered LCR looks 1000 times better than an ST

 

[JamJay]

I think torque would be a major factor in this and that 2.5 5cyl in the focus pushes out plenty. Maybe not more than a remapped LCR but like Danny says, it'll hold it better than the 1.8 (due to bigger displacement and extra cylinder I guess) which will peak and tail off so it means to keep up there you need to shift gears earlier in the 1.8. Stage 1 on my LCR was a lot of fun but it had its shortcomings for sure, the power tailoff was very noticeable and where it made a peak of 250bhp it then tailed to about 230bhp by the redline. Now at Stage 2 the car has much longer lasting power with a 290bhp peak and still 260bhp at the redline on a hot day, the power curve is consitent and very smooth.

Thanks for the comment QU4RESMA, much appreciated .

Don't be disheartened, your LCR is no doubt still very quick but have a look for possible leaks if you suspect them or if there are any running issues. The slipping clutch may have pretty much been what did you in so get that replaced. I'd recommend a standard replacement, they're pretty hardy and only tend to go if they've had a rough ride before a remap (you never know when buying second hand). I'm pushing out a lot of torque and I am still on the original clutch (touch wood ) but then again I've owned it a long time and I've driven it softly for the most part.

Be prepared to budget for a new dual-mass flywheel too if that's seen better days and a tip for you...buy an LUK clutch kit, it's the same brand as the genuine SEAT one yet is considerably cheaper without the SEAT packaging .

 

[JamJay]

So in short a remapped LCR can only keep up or edge a Focus ST standard? WOW

No, not true. I have had run in with a (what I assume was standard) 3dr ST-2 while mine was Stage 1 mapped & running perfectly and I got away quite considerably over several runs. I think your clutch let you down massively.

P.S. Stage 2 LCR vs equivalent modded ST is about the same, as is a Stage 3 tuned Astra VXR. All after this point are at their limit and need a bigger turbo. The MK2 Stage 2 Leon Cupra/Golf ED30 & Focus RS have this class licked due to their bigger standard turbo's and larger displacement. However, stick a GT28 on the LCR and you'll be back in the game (sadly with more lag).

 

[QU4RESMA]

You're right about the torque held better in the ST.
Disheartened doesnt begin to describe it! I'm certainly looking to max tune the LCR.
Previously owned a bigturbo Golf 1.8T. Completed the conversion only to sell on before the custom remap was carried out. Wouldve been good for 300+BHP and the torque in 1st & 2nd was strong to the red line.
I'm having my clutch changed at the end of the month, LUK you say? I'll certainly be shopping around for it in that case, thanks JAMJAY! Does the lightened flywheel make a massive impact?

 

[Henjo24]

What a load of rubbish! My previous car which was a clio 182 cup kept up with a standard focus ST with ease. I think it depends on the remap you have. My LCR read 271 on the dyno just from stage 1 and a few subtle mods. Ive had a few sprints with ST'S VXR'S etc etc. and the LCR has always came out on top. Ive even had a sprints with an e46 M3 and there was nothing in it. IMO a healty Remapped LCR with no boost leaks etc etc and no wheelspin on a dry road should leave a standard ST for dead.

 

[QU4RESMA]

Well i've checked for boosts leaks - cant find any or hear any.
I have a clutch on its way out - would this impact take off too?

If im down on power, i certainly dont know where to start looking! That's why i asked the question.
Any other ideas?

 

[JamJay]

You're right about the torque held better in the ST.
Disheartened doesnt begin to describe it! I'm certainly looking to max tune the LCR.
Previously owned a bigturbo Golf 1.8T. Completed the conversion only to sell on before the custom remap was carried out. Wouldve been good for 300+BHP and the torque in 1st & 2nd was strong to the red line.
I'm having my clutch changed at the end of the month, LUK you say? I'll certainly be shopping around for it in that case, thanks JAMJAY! Does the lightened flywheel make a massive impact?

Yeah LUK is what you want, I think EuroCarParts can supply these but others will be able to point youn in the right direction as I've personally not needed to look myself. The dual-mass flywheel isn't lightened but you can fit a lightened single-mass to these...I believe acceleration is improved but I don't have much knowledge here at all, I know that it's their nature to rattle a little though. Take off would be affected yes, you're putting a lot of load on the clutch in 1st & 2nd gear under a hard launch.

What a load of rubbish! My previous car which was a clio 182 cup kept up with a standard focus ST with ease. I think it depends on the remap you have. My LCR read 271 on the dyno just from stage 1 and a few subtle mods. Ive had a few sprints with ST'S VXR'S etc etc. and the LCR has always came out on top. Ive even had a sprints with an e46 M3 and there was nothing in it. IMO a healty Remapped LCR with no boost leaks etc etc and no wheelspin on a dry road should leave a standard ST for dead.

Correct .

Get that clutch done and post up your RR results from the remap if you can QU4RESMA, it'd be nice to see your graph so that it's possible to see what's going on. Jabba are a good company so I doubt they'd let you on your way with boost leaks.