Clutch Slip

[AP2000]

I've had a Toledo TDi 130 (2003) for nearly 3 months now. I had a p torque remap last month.

I'm now experiencing clutch slip in 4th, 5th and 6th gear (the revs race ahead without the acceleration, then drop down like I've changed up a gear) when I accelerate harder than usual. Also, occasionally I find it difficult to engage 5th gear from 6th. Another possibly related issue is that from moving from stand still, the car judders slightly and revs a bit more than I would expect.

I never really took the car past 2000rpm before the remap, so I'm unsure whether clutch slip was there.

I do have an after market warranty but it excludes "clutch friction material", so I doubt they would cover the costs, even though they asked me to take to a garage to diagnose. I've taken it to Nationwide Autocentre, who will strip down the gearbox to check for the fault (on Wednesday), but will charge 4 hours labour for it (£130 ish)! They quote between £408-£700 for a new clutch fitted.

Bit confused now, do I ignore the problem and drive gently so I never notice the clutch slip, get the gearbox taken out and check what parts are worn or remove the remap?

Has anyone has a new clutch from Nationwide? Would it be able to hand a remap?

Thanks

 

[FabiaTDi]

Clutch slip is common with mapped cars.

Speak to Allard, get an uprated clutch friction disc and get it fitted by a local VW specialist or your main dealer.

This will cure your clutch slip - you can get the whole clutch assembly uprated but its not necessary for just a remap IMO.

 

[AP2000]

Would an uprated friction disc be expensive? Could there be damage to other parts of the clutch already maybe?

 

[FabiaTDi]

Would an uprated friction disc be expensive? Could there be damage to other parts of the clutch already maybe?

http://www.allardmotorcompany.com/pages/products/pd_clutches.asp

Have a look at the above link. An uprated friction disc can be fitted if the original clutch is in good condition. Its cheaper than getting the whole clutch but its the fiiting which is the costly bit.

Talk to your tuner to see if you get clutch slip without the map or if the the torque can be reduced to stop the slip.

 

[AP2000]

Thanks for the reply, very useful.

So looks like £185+vat for drive disc (is that the same as a friction disk and clutch disc?)

On VW spares http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1364
They have the clutch kit (pressure plate + disc) for £124.17+vat but I guess that's just a standard clutch.

I would think getting an uprated disc sound like the best idea, only issue is when I get someone to fit it, they find other parts are worn, like the pressure plate of flywheel. The car has only done 36,000 which isn't much really for a worn clutch.

Thanks again.

 

[FabiaTDi]

Thanks for the reply, very useful.

So looks like £185+vat for drive disc (is that the same as a friction disk and clutch disc?)

On VW spares http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1364
They have the clutch kit (pressure plate + disc) for £124.17+vat but I guess that's just a standard clutch.

I would think getting an uprated disc sound like the best idea, only issue is when I get someone to fit it, they find other parts are worn, like the pressure plate of flywheel. The car has only done 36,000 which isn't much really for a worn clutch.

Thanks again.

Yes thats the one.
I would be surprised if the clutch on an previously unmapped car was knackered at 36,000 miles unless it had been abused.

Yes there is the risk that they find the other parts too worn and would need replacing.

 

[willbatch]

I've just uprated mine with the helix friction disc, its done the job nicely. i also brought a sach clutch kit to use the other parts, release bearing pressure plate etc that was an extra £120.00. ive done about 1000 miles on this set up and not a slip at all.

 

[AP2000]

I've just uprated mine with the helix friction disc, its done the job nicely. i also brought a sach clutch kit to use the other parts, release bearing pressure plate etc that was an extra £120.00. ive done about 1000 miles on this set up and not a slip at all.

What parts came in the clutch kit? I thought the friction plate was part of it?

Was there any wear to any of the clutch that was causing the problem or just the clutch not being able to handle the remap?

Thanks.

 

[trqster]

It'll slip because it can't handle all the extra torque from the remap...if you switch back to standard or reduce the torque load on the current remap you should be fine...
The "problem" with a reinforced clutch is that you'll never have again the soft progressive nice feeling of the standard clutch. You'll get a more on/off feeling and some vibrations when start moving.

 

[devonmikeyboy]

The "problem" with a reinforced clutch is that you'll never have again the soft progressive nice feeling of the standard clutch. You'll get a more on/off feeling and some vibrations when start moving.

Not with a standard Helix or Sashs organic drive disc which feels just like stock as anyone on this site can tell you. You start to get the on/off problems with sintered discs and especially the cerametallic paddle discs that have cerametallic segments rivetted on to a drive disc which is what i have to upgrade to.

 

[AP2000]

If I do get an uprated clutch I will probably go for the Helix kit from Allards (Pressure plate and drive disc) for 387+vat. Do you need any other parts to fit it?

 

[devonmikeyboy]

If I do get an uprated clutch I will probably go for the Helix kit from Allards (Pressure plate and drive disc) for 387+vat. Do you need any other parts to fit it?

Nope staight swop mate, any garage that can fit a standard clutch in your car should be able to fit this as parts as like for like.

 

[Mikey_H]

yea i agree with devonmikeyboy on that one my new clutch feels nearly the same as standard jabba told me if i went for the next clutch up think it was helix and single flywheel tht you get an on and off feeling and that the gearbox makes noises when idleing

 

[AP2000]

Do I need a Concentric Slave Cylinder to change at the same time as the other 2 parts?

 

[trqster]

Not with a standard Helix or Sashs organic drive disc which feels just like stock as anyone on this site can tell you. You start to get the on/off problems with sintered discs and especially the cerametallic paddle discs that have cerametallic segments rivetted on to a drive disc which is what i have to upgrade to.

Yes, it was with the ceramic reinforced clutch that I referred to as having the on/off and vibration "feeling"... Most of the clutch reinforcement jobs made around here are made on the standard clutch replacing the pads with ceramic based ones.
And the single-mass flywheel IMO is a real pain in the butt...only recommended for competition.

Fortunately my standard clutch is still going strong handling +400Nm for over 70k miles and have no such worries (yet).

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Why fit a cerametallic disc to a clutch when an organic disc will easily hold the torque that 99% of most modded diesel cars will produce. I have never understood the fascination that people seem to have with SMF on a diesel car either. Been there done that and don`t want to go back again to be honest but it looks like a don`t have any choice in my case.

 

[AP2000]

Would I need to order a Concentric Slave Cylinder with the Allards Helix clutch it (the 387+vat one)

Thanks.

 

[trqster]

Around here....you can have your standard clutch reinforced (kevlar or ceramic based pads) and re-calibrate the flywheel for about £250 fitted & including 1 year warranty. These kind of materials seem to be extremely expensive in the UK - wonder why since usually they're not british made anyway...
Reminds me a situation of a (British) guy I once told and woudn't believe that I'd paid £100 to have my VNT17 revisioned and made a hybrid of...

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Would I need to order a Concentric Slave Cylinder with the Allards Helix clutch it (the 387+vat one)

Thanks.

Nope.

 

[AP2000]

This should work on a Toledo TDi 130?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-GOLF-Mk4-1...ryZ72205QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Looks like a good price and specs, had anyone used a CG MOTORSPORT clutch?