Car is down on power wat could it be

[rst_cupra_r]

had my cupra r on rollers and it only made 241@fly i was hopin for around 260-265@fly, it has revo, ram air filter and full system cat back magnex exhaust, it has revo fitted by big boys toys my lcr never took it first time for some reason i remember the techie sayin its not acceptin th code, wen i phoned big boys they are happy to vag-com it for me as they think its maff or n75
wat do u guys reakon i have vag-com but have fook all clue how to use it but im goin big boys this week but i worried it could be something else
thanks guys

 

[Tallpaul]

don't think the exhaust will improve power at all, after all the downpipe and cats restrict the flow. Not sure on the design of the ramair filter - is it open cone?

*Should* make more than 241bhp with REVO, but then again what was your output before REVO? If you were only putting out say 215bhp (easily possible) then 26bhp is a healthy increase.

If there is a problem i'd vote MAF, it's the simplest. That, of course depends on this not being a genuine result or just a low reading dyno?

 

[Reg]

Was there an obvious drop in the curve, or did it just seem down all the way through? (And just checking, are you sure that figure they gave you was definitely a calculated flywheel figure, not an actual at the wheel figure?

How long ago did you have it mapped?

 

[warren_cox]

After Revo Stage 2, full milltek (inc. 100 cell race cats), Dynatwist, forge 007P, I got 231bhp & 310lb/ft at Westec so don't feel too bad about it. I admit it was the first of three subsequent versions of stage 2, but I'd still be surprised to see any more than a real actual 240bhp.

 

[acidstrato]

the problem with rollers is if the computer dont show what u expected then alot of ppl believe there is something wrong with the car

recently my car made 161bhp on its second run, the first which ended abruptly with a pipe blowing

on the same rollers some NA cars produced some pretty decent results e.g. a 206 GTi 180 got 182bhp and a 306GTi6 got 189bhp...stick the cars on the road though and the story is completely different

in my opinion vag com is a much better tool than any rollers

 

[rst_cupra_r]

ok guys ill try post th graph i dont have scanner but ill try photo it and post it,

i know th exhaust and filter doent make any gains but ws told revo should hit 260/265bhp @fly i have th 210bhp engine

i had revo put onto th car in october last year

reg how do u mean actual an calculated power

the rolling road is a ver good acurate place ihave had rolling roads there before nd have been spot on plus my mates two cars both got wat they expected so the rollers and coolin system was all good in my mind

might be nout wrong wit my car and me bein paranoid

 

[andycupra]

what settings you running on revo?

 

[Tallpaul]

but ws told revo should hit 260/265bhp @fly i have th 210bhp engine

Sorry, thought you had the 225 LCR. In that case i doubt strongly there is anything wrong with your car.

Did you really believe a remap alone would produce a 25% increase in power? I'd say a real 10% increase is more likely.

Still, i'd take up the offer from Big Boys Toys just for peace of mind.

 

[Reg]

Jamie,

Two figures can come off the dyno for power.

First is the power measured at the wheels - i.e. how much power is actually being transmitted to the road. In my humble opinion, this is the only true compasison (I appreciate lots will disagree).

Second figure is a calculated one, the flywheel figure. I say calculated because unless you remove an engine and bench test it, the losses through the transmission can only be calculated/educated guess.

When manufacturers quote bhp figures it will generally be a bench tested flywheel figure and its why a lot of people are dissappointed when their car knocks out 20-40 bhp less than the brochure at the wheels. Four wheel drive cars will suffer much worse than 2 wheel drive because of the extra friction in their drivetrain.

So in your case, if your car was knocking out 240bhp at the wheels, that would be a pretty darn good figure.

 

[Saul]

which rollers were they?

99% of me says the rollers have too little or too much load combined with inadequate cooling for your side mounted intercoolers resulting in low power

does the car feel slower than it has in the past, or is your head now saying somethings wrong now that a piece of paper says you are down on power?

get the graphs posted

 

[Reg]

Very true Saul - its my understanding forced induction engines will never perform as well on a dyno as they will on the move (compared to naturally aspirated). My mate's race car is a pain in the butt to get accurate figures from (VW Cup car, 1.8T petrol), and the rolling road in Essex he uses gives quite different figures to the Superchips dyne the race series uses as a control for all the cars.

My bike, and any other engine that uses a pressurised airbox to enhance top-end power, will never give its best on a static test. The big fans they use on a dyno just about provide the bare minimum to keep temperatures sensible - can you imagine the fan you would need to simulate a 150mph passing breeze! Thats when the Ram-air stuff is supposed to kick in on my bike, providing an extra 4-5 bhp. I guess its the same for the cars to some extent.

 

[rst_cupra_r]

ok guys thanks for all the comments i understand bout all transmissions losses on rolling roads and i only really go by wheel horse power im not sure if its quoted at fly or wheel lol im sure thats atfly by lookin at graph its gettin 181bhp at th wheels,

i know people lie an bullshit wen the say that remaps/and chips make this power (i know this mainly from th rst as u get 180bhp an 195bhp chips for rst but u need lots of parts such as 16psi,exhaust,cam,uprated big front mount cooler and possibly turbo modded) but nearly all companies said that the 210/225 1.8t engine should get 260/265bhp from fly anyway
here comes th graph

sorry for crap pics as said dont have scanner

 

[CupraUK]

the torque is coming in late. mine peaks at 3,400 with Revo and 3,300 when standard. Although this may be a difference between K03s and K04 (bigger turbo make take longer to spool up)

 

[Si]

The torque is low as well but I'm thinking its the rollers or the REVO SPS setting being very conservative as the curves look fine its just the peak being low.

Here is my plot from Powerstation but I'm running e-maps not REVO so its not a brilliant comparison

http://www.westover.org.uk/si/power/si.pdf

 

[rst_cupra_r]

yeah ill get to big boys see wat they say it dosnt feel any differetn from wen i 1st got it done but who knows it could have been that crap since i had it done lol

oh andycupra i believe that im running 5/5 revo settings does that make sense

 

[Mitchy]

180bhp is way down on power.

You should be hitting 180 @ wheels on a standard car at least!

Revo you should be looking at 220-230bhp @ wheels!

You have a major problem!

 

[Mitchy]

May be your filter has damaged your MAF??

Ive only ever heard bad things about Ram Air filters. Not many people have magnex exhausts either.

Could be down to rolling road, they should ideally use 1 massive fan or 2 smaller fans placed by the intercoolers.

You should not be losing 60bhp through the transmission either. 40bhp on our cars, no more!

Take your car to a respected VAG rolling road centre such as JBS/Awesome/Jabba. They know how to run the cars, a lot of other tuners and operators clearly do not!

On the basis of your 1st post it initially looks like you are down around 20-25bhp, but looking at your wheel figures you are down around 40-50whp.

You have major problems or the rolling road has given you dodgy readings! You should be aiming for 220-230whp

Flywheel figures are for down the pub, its @ the wheels figures where it counts!

 

[rst_cupra_r]

that is wat i thought i should be lookin for around 260@fly an 225@wheels if it is th ram air filter sodin up my maf that will show up on vag-com will it mitchy, jbs,awesome and jabba are all around at least 3hours away from me pain in th arse

 

[Mitchy]

You can try unplugging the maf and see how it runs.

You may be worrying for nothing as like someone has already said. It could all be down to the rolling road! I have my doubts anyway saying you have a 60hp loss.

If you had a boost gauge you'd be able to determine if it was running good by moitoring max boost and how long it holds through the revs. A neccessity in my eyes when running increased boost to normal.

The difference a new MAF makes is unbelievable when your car is not running good, it may be down to that! Have you got any vagcom readings?

 

[rst_cupra_r]

i have vag-com but not th cable lol, ill be goin to big boys on sunday or monday and there goin to vag-com it for me, im in process of gettin th boost gauge ive always had them in my previous cars, wat boost should a remaped lcr peak at and then hold at