agreed.. its all about what you want in a car. In my opinion the clio has too many compromises. Which is what i over emphasised and exaggerated with the R26R analogy.. lovely car, but too hardcore for day to day.
agreed.. its all about what you want in a car. In my opinion the clio has too many compromises. Which is what i over emphasised and exaggerated with the R26R analogy.. lovely car, but too hardcore for day to day.
i have to say, it still shocks me whenever i see a thread on any website which brings the mini into comparison how blinkered so many people are. As a hot hatch the Cooper S is seriously in a league of its own. You simply can;t compare the Ibiza cupra to a mini on the handling front. The mini is one of THE best handling small car fullstop.
Also on the performance front, again i's say the Cooper S has the mk5 cupra pipped, Most of them RR at 190-195bhp standard. in fact the JCW ones are meant to be 211bhp but all seem to RR at 235bhp which explains why they feel so damn quick.
Yes the mini may seem cutesy and yes some may think its not very masculine, but look past that and its one hell of a drivers car.
In todays mini hot hatch stakes i'd say the Mk5 Cupra is probably 5 or 6th and would put the Clio, corsa VXR, mini Cooper S, and Punto Abarth ahead of the ahead of the beeza. Sorry but thats just my opinion. I think they missed a trick. the peach in the mk5 line up is going to be the FR Tdi.
Be interesting to see what the hotter Polos look like.
Also on the performance front, again i's say the Cooper S has the mk5 cupra pipped, Most of them RR at 190-195bhp standard. in fact the JCW ones are meant to be 211bhp but all seem to RR at 235bhp which explains why they feel so damn quick.
Yes the mini may seem cutesy and yes some may think its not very masculine, but look past that and its one hell of a drivers car.
In todays mini hot hatch stakes i'd say the Mk5 Cupra is probably 5 or 6th and would put the Clio, corsa VXR, mini Cooper S, and Punto Abarth ahead of the ahead of the beeza. Sorry but thats just my opinion. I think they missed a trick. the peach in the mk5 line up is going to be the FR Tdi.
Be interesting to see what the hotter Polos look like.
The mini is not actually faster than the cupra if you read the article.
I also don’t see the mini finishing ahead of the Clio in other magazine article track times. So it can’t be THE best handling small car full stop. Also what does the mini weigh? Off hand I don’t know but I’m willing to be its more than the Cupra/Boc which is why they will compare performance wise. Another thing to remember is VAG car’s usually produce over their claimed figures as well. I my case my 160BHP Diesel cupra made 175BHP pre remap. We don’t know what figures the Boc/Cupra is actually putting out or the mini for that matter.
It’s a good quality well built car, I personally wouldn't have one due to the interior and exterior looks. A sorted JCW mini is pretty nice though.
I also don’t see the mini finishing ahead of the Clio in other magazine article track times. So it can’t be THE best handling small car full stop. Also what does the mini weigh? Off hand I don’t know but I’m willing to be its more than the Cupra/Boc which is why they will compare performance wise. Another thing to remember is VAG car’s usually produce over their claimed figures as well. I my case my 160BHP Diesel cupra made 175BHP pre remap. We don’t know what figures the Boc/Cupra is actually putting out or the mini for that matter.
It’s a good quality well built car, I personally wouldn't have one due to the interior and exterior looks. A sorted JCW mini is pretty nice though.
I was lucky enough to drive one of these a few months back
and whilst for a 1.4 it's quick, a lot of that power can be delivered courtesy of a very quick launch using the DSG system. Sometimes if your not careful and you overcook it, its possible to spin the power away.
The XDS system enabled good cornering speed and stability, but at higher speeds I tended to find it a bit breathless and powerless (but then it's a 1.4 so there is no shame in that).
Having driven the Mini I'd say there is more scope for the skilled driver the hone their craft than in the Ibiza which is a safe, confidence inspiring but slightly inert drive. Still, it's a very good car, but you are paying for it, so it should be.
chris@lworth
Guest
Hey guys. It always frustrates me that in alot of the reviews have been excellent apart from comments about the handling. It makes me wonder if some of the ppl have actually driven ALL the cars they apparently review. I run a Candy White Boc and drive it hard all the time - also having had one on a track I think the handling is fine.!
I understand that alot of ppl will modify the handling, however unless your tracking it often there isn’t really any need. I have an excellent drive to and from work as its 'A' roads for 16mile door to door with straights, twists and bends everywhere. It handles fine.!
Perhaps these ppl who write reviews just read someone else’s and use all their text rather than driving the car properly.! It always amazes me why all these review people rave about French cars.! Would they really buy one or recommend a friend one.! Nope - that’s why the Top Gear chaps said they liked the drive but would never EVER recommend family should buy one! Enough said.!
I understand that alot of ppl will modify the handling, however unless your tracking it often there isn’t really any need. I have an excellent drive to and from work as its 'A' roads for 16mile door to door with straights, twists and bends everywhere. It handles fine.!
Perhaps these ppl who write reviews just read someone else’s and use all their text rather than driving the car properly.! It always amazes me why all these review people rave about French cars.! Would they really buy one or recommend a friend one.! Nope - that’s why the Top Gear chaps said they liked the drive but would never EVER recommend family should buy one! Enough said.!
DISCLAIMER: I've driven none of these cars so I can't compare, however......
You say the Boc handles fine when driven hard, but have you driven the 200 Cup similarly hard to compare?
Isn't the problem that nobody really makes 'bad' cars, especially hot-hatches any more. So much so that it all comes down to personal opinion, and ineffable things like 'feel' rather than lap-time?
EVO marked the Scirocco R down against the FRS just because it was too easy to make it go quickly.
I guess we're heading to a point where it's more about how involving a car is, rather than how quick it is. e.g. there are loads of better handling and quicker cars than the mk I MX-5, but I'd wager there's not that many that are more fun.
I'm not so sure that it does. DSG (according to VAG) changes gear quicker than a human, and the way the cogs were served up made it feel very quick off the mark.
When I got back in the S3 and started stirring cogs I wasn't half as proficient.
I want to be clear here, I drive a VAG car, and as much as it's easy to blow smoke up it's @r$e, the S3 has lifeless steering and due to the electronics very often I can't truly sense exactly what goes on underneath me. Something happens, I just can't quite tell what. Like the S3, the Boca / Cupra has bountiful grip, but its sensing the limit of where the grip extends to which I find more difficult in VAG cars. Grip, grip, grip, almost in the hedge! It's less progressive.
Would I want to own a French car? Possbly not. Been there and turned it down once (Clio V6). What is great about the current crop of VAG's is they have very usable power delivery which makes them great daily drivers. I wouldn't have a VAG platform car if I could afford a weekend thrill car. Don't get me wrong I still love VAG's (after 17 year run), they are incredibly competent, if a little lacking in the 'X factor'.
I got very wound up with the what car magazine review. So much so I actually emailed them (they never replied).
It was the most bias review I have ever read, at the end all the different categories they asses are scored out of 5. I remember thinking as I was reading it the final result would be in favour of the boc since it had done very well. But.. it came in last place. What was strange was when I tallied the overall score up it got the highest amount of points. Yet had the lowest final score 3 stars v 4 for the clio and mini. How does that work?? It has the most points overall yet gets scored the lowest? Also the performance figures were well out, by more than a second.
In the same magazine they give the near enough identical polo 5 stars and the comparable Ibiza 3 stars?? The magazine really seems to have something wrong.
So yes to a certain extent I do think some reviews are wrong or bias. But ones like Evo or the one in the first post are bound to be accurate as you can see all three cars side by side.
With regards to handling, i’ll be going for eibach, for looks and ride quality as well as handling.
It was the most bias review I have ever read, at the end all the different categories they asses are scored out of 5. I remember thinking as I was reading it the final result would be in favour of the boc since it had done very well. But.. it came in last place. What was strange was when I tallied the overall score up it got the highest amount of points. Yet had the lowest final score 3 stars v 4 for the clio and mini. How does that work?? It has the most points overall yet gets scored the lowest? Also the performance figures were well out, by more than a second.
In the same magazine they give the near enough identical polo 5 stars and the comparable Ibiza 3 stars?? The magazine really seems to have something wrong.
So yes to a certain extent I do think some reviews are wrong or bias. But ones like Evo or the one in the first post are bound to be accurate as you can see all three cars side by side.
With regards to handling, i’ll be going for eibach, for looks and ride quality as well as handling.
TBH I think that it is all down to personal opinion.
I have briefly driven (so no expert) back to back a corsa vxr, clio 200 (on one of the best roads around, A507 between Cottered and Baldock in Hertfordshire and have to admit the way it takes the corners are amazing ) and a boca and it was the boca that did it for me, the other 2 were very good cars don’t get me wrong but for what I wanted the car for the boca was my choice.
I did consider the Punto abath but just don’t like it for some reason and mini for about a second as I think there a little to common and I do have the perception there a hairdressers car but im sure it’s a gr8 car just not for me.
Im sure the next person would disagree with me but for me it’s the boca all day long
I have briefly driven (so no expert) back to back a corsa vxr, clio 200 (on one of the best roads around, A507 between Cottered and Baldock in Hertfordshire and have to admit the way it takes the corners are amazing ) and a boca and it was the boca that did it for me, the other 2 were very good cars don’t get me wrong but for what I wanted the car for the boca was my choice.
I did consider the Punto abath but just don’t like it for some reason and mini for about a second as I think there a little to common and I do have the perception there a hairdressers car but im sure it’s a gr8 car just not for me.
Im sure the next person would disagree with me but for me it’s the boca all day long
Interesting read warren_cox. I'm guessing the boc would feel a little lacking top end compared to your 260BHP S3 Also I’m guessing the fact the S3 has a 10mph higher top speed this extra potential speed/acceleration will show at slightly lower speeds 70-80mph.
I can’t wait to see some performance figures for revo’d Boc’s if people have the guts to actually try it! I’m thinking a map similar to the scirocco’s but with less torque would be ideal something in the region of 215BHP & 280Nm. That will be RAPID!
Also I’m guessing the fact the S3 has a 10mph higher top speed this extra potential speed/acceleration will show at slightly lower speeds 70-80mph.I can’t wait to see some performance figures for revo’d Boc’s if people have the guts to actually try it!
I’m thinking a map similar to the scirocco’s but with less torque would be ideal something in the region of 215BHP & 280Nm. That will be RAPID!
Don't let it feck you up mate, most of them probably have very little REAL interest or understanding of cars and just happen to be doing a stint in What Car this month.
If you enjoy it, and you believe the money you pay against the reward you get adds up, feck everyone else. It's about you.
It's genuinely a very good car with a storming 1.4 lump (how I'd have loved that engine in my old Lupo GTi
).I very much liked it, BUT what I find hard to stomach is my S3 is worth £20k (2007 / 30k miles), or I could go and buy a loaded new Boca for the same money (because of the exchange awful rate putting prices up). In reality whilst the Boca is cheaper to run day to day, would I give up 360bhp to switch over?
The current crop of new hatches seem a tad overpriced at the moment. and I don't feel compelled to change. I bought a brand new Leon Cupra R225 1.8T in 2005 for £16,100 so these hypermini's at £20k have got a lot to stand up against. Yes they're incredibly good, but given half of them don't even come with proper double din HDD nav or an option for a stereo upgrade at £20k, I can't help but feel a tad short changed in the overall quality dept.
I completely agree about the prices. They are crazy high now. Maybe I did make a mistake going for a new car instead of something like the S3? Who knows I really wanted a new car so didn’t give it too much thought. I do like the S3 and it is a better car and 4WD will be great but I’m not sure the fuel, tax insurance would be affordable out of my monthly budget. That for me is what matters not the overall cost.
I priced up the same spec boc on the seat site the other day. With the new VAT rate and not inc the rather nice discount I got it came to £19,300!! Thats completely nuts! I wouldn’t pay that much!
I priced up the same spec boc on the seat site the other day. With the new VAT rate and not inc the rather nice discount I got it came to £19,300!! Thats completely nuts! I wouldn’t pay that much!
Beauty of buying new is you get to run it in, get a full 3 year warranty, and have that great feeling of driving away this spanking new motor with that new car smell.
£19,300 is a lot, but the Alfa MiTo, Fiat 500 Arbarth Essesse , Clio Cup, Corsa VXR, Mini all come in at similar cash (the Corsa Arctic ltd was nearly £21k loaded). The car industry wonder why they are struggling - I know it's not their fault, but the Euro will stall growth if it carries on this way.
The Cupra I drove was loaded up with camera gear, so I'm hoping to get round to looking at some footage from my drive in the next little while. I think out of the lot above it may well be the one I'd buy, but the Clio is tempting.
i can speak from experience as
I have owned a new new shape Cooper S
My brother owns and i have borrowes it for a week a Corsa VXR arctic
I have hired a Clio 200 cup from RSR on one of our trips to the ring last year
i've had a punto Abarth ( non essess ) on test drive for a weekend when i was looking to buy one earlier in 2009
and finally test driven an ibiza cupra normal when i was looking to get my current cupra ( was going to go finance route but instead bought cash used)
So all mine is based on experience.
Oh and mardon, i knopw the mag says faster ( marginaly) but i'm talking real world try it and you will be shocked
Oh and lets add another one, buying with your own money, remember residuals. I bought my Cooper S in january for 15450 ran it for 6 months and done 5000 miles in it, then when i needed the cash back ( i paid cash for it) for my house i sold it to a local mini dealer for 15350 in June 09, so cost me 100 quid to run it for 6 months. You try doing that in an ibiza ( alright i was lucky as car prices rose in those 6 months, but still.
Don;t always believe the mags, get out there and try it.
I have owned a new new shape Cooper S
My brother owns and i have borrowes it for a week a Corsa VXR arctic
I have hired a Clio 200 cup from RSR on one of our trips to the ring last year
i've had a punto Abarth ( non essess ) on test drive for a weekend when i was looking to buy one earlier in 2009
and finally test driven an ibiza cupra normal when i was looking to get my current cupra ( was going to go finance route but instead bought cash used)
So all mine is based on experience.
Oh and mardon, i knopw the mag says faster ( marginaly) but i'm talking real world try it and you will be shocked
Oh and lets add another one, buying with your own money, remember residuals. I bought my Cooper S in january for 15450 ran it for 6 months and done 5000 miles in it, then when i needed the cash back ( i paid cash for it) for my house i sold it to a local mini dealer for 15350 in June 09, so cost me 100 quid to run it for 6 months. You try doing that in an ibiza ( alright i was lucky as car prices rose in those 6 months, but still.
Don;t always believe the mags, get out there and try it.
Corsa VXR arctic 21k, you sure???
My brother paid 15995 for his brand new from picadors down in April. I'm not sure anyone pays list for a vauxhall.
Oh and don;t comapre the S3 to the ibiza, the S3 is in a totally different league, which the ibiza could never jump up to.
I specced a new Golf R the other day with all the options ticked, it came out at £41500, for a bloody golf. How they justify that price on the Golf R compared with an S3 i seriously don;t know.
My brother paid 15995 for his brand new from picadors down in April. I'm not sure anyone pays list for a vauxhall.
Oh and don;t comapre the S3 to the ibiza, the S3 is in a totally different league, which the ibiza could never jump up to.
I specced a new Golf R the other day with all the options ticked, it came out at £41500, for a bloody golf. How they justify that price on the Golf R compared with an S3 i seriously don;t know.
I'm tempted to go try a clio 200 just to see if it brings back the old feeling of my 106 GTi.
I love the looks of the Corsa VXR but dont think i'd actually want one. Dont know why though. They dont look like they handle too hot in the 5th gear video I watched.
I love the looks of the Corsa VXR but dont think i'd actually want one. Dont know why though. They dont look like they handle too hot in the 5th gear video I watched.
Configurator price, so no haggling. They seem bloody quick, an artic round my way gave a very good account of itself recently.
Seems a far more representative price, and for that money a storming car.
I think they just share parts of that VAG inert sensation that they seem so good at building in!
The pricing monkeys at Wolfsburg are idiots and should be birched until they get their sums right. That's over £10k too much in my opinion.
Ant, On a side note I adore those Mini's with the red wing mirrors and GP on the roof / 4 spoke alloys. What are they like, any good?
The corsa VXr handles really well actually, Although not with 18's they make the ride awful and most owners are de speccing to the 17's
As for the clio 200, well i have to say i was dissapointed. always reading the reviews about how good they are and watching them out on track at track days etc and the ring. But the one we had for the day round the ring last year was dissapointing. Firslty the interior was awful, no different to a basic clio with exception of the yellow dial. And yep it was quick, but boy did it take a long time to get there, there was next to no torque and on the ring esepcially we were finding on corners where a turbo or supercharged car would excel, the little renault was scrubbing off speed and then having to be dropped to 2nd to just get going, and you also had to rev the nuts off it. So on track it may be fun, Somewhere like bedford, but on the orad everyday it just would'nt have the sparkle.
out of the two as an everyday car the corsa would win for me, simple remap to 240bhp and off you go, oh and those gorgeous recaro seats standard.
there the GP's
they were a special edition, only 400 odd in the uk. they are only 2 seater as the rear is stripped out and come with a fancy rear wing ( which is over 2k on its own and the 218bhp supercharged lump.
Yes they are nice but the cheapest ones are still 14500 and a lot of people are realising you can go spend a 5k on a standard cooper s and then spend 3k on mods and get a better car.
The GP is too special to play with.
The new special edition mini the Mini JCW championship 50 is £36k standard....lol but only 250 being built.
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