Big brakes, standard alloys?

[Robbie C]

OK this is one area of the Ibizas I am completely clueless about and need some advice.

I'm looking to change my brakes to a bigger setup in anticipation of running my hybrid K03S in the next couple of months.

The question I can't seem to find an answer to is what's the optimum setup I can fit under the standard 16" Cupra alloys? I'm keeping these for winter wheels and track abuse.

I know you need 38mm clearance for the calipers which the Brembos don't give, so I'm assuming that leaves me with Wilwoods and HiSpec?

Looking at the HiSpec site I found: http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Conversions/VW/Golf Mk1-2-3 300 B4.htm

From the diagram I haven't a clue what I'm looking for so can someone advise what kits will fit under the standard rims please?

 

[PhilW]

Im sure my 310mm wilwood superlites will fit under standard rims, mork or someone will confirm probably.

 

[m0rk]

Im sure my 310mm wilwood superlites will fit under standard rims, mork or someone will confirm probably.

confirmed

 

[Robbie C]

Cheers guys - I'm guessing a lot of it depends on how chunky the calipers are. I'm intrigued to find out what's the biggest HiSpec kit I can run

EDIT: Been reading through Bill's Brembo thread and going to have to take a wheel off tomorrow to see how much (or indeed little) caliper clearance I have:

This is the HiSpec diagram for the 300mm kits, but still unsure as to how much caliper clearance that demands?

 

[ibizacupra]

in hi-spec's you need to know bell thickness to equate this to the wheels hub face from my (compomotive) dwg so it will be 30mm + their bell thickness... ~10mm as a guess

 

[Robbie C]

Thanks Bill, in which case it looks unlikely with standard rimmage. I also notice that diagram assumes a 65mm hub centre bore whereas ours are 57.1 so I'm not even sure this kit applies? Yet I know the Wilwood Golf kits do fit from what I've read on here at least...

I think I'll give HiSpec a call and see what they can do for a "Corrado G60"

 

[Robbie C]

Rang HiSpec earlier and the guy I spoke to couldn't find any kits for a G60 Golf/Rado but does it have to be G60 specific or will a MK2 16V fitment work on our hubs?

It seems that the Wilwood kits people use are from a Golf MK2 so are all MK2 16V brake kits compatible? I've been searching high and low but can't find a definite answer anywhere

 

[Robbie C]

OK so according to Mork in http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65336 the later (1990) MK2 Golf GTI 16V brakes will fit a MK3 but does this mean the actual hubs are the same?

I.e. will a 4-pot kit for a late MK2 Golf GTI fit a MK3 Cupra?

Really stuck on this one so any confirmation would be appreciated

 

[ibizacupra]

OK so according to Mork in http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65336 the later (1990) MK2 Golf GTI 16V brakes will fit a MK3 but does this mean the actual hubs are the same?

I.e. will a 4-pot kit for a late MK2 Golf GTI fit a MK3 Cupra?

Really stuck on this one so any confirmation would be appreciated

yes it will
so long as the later model car has demountable caliper carriers (which they do when 256mm or bigger as std) then the hubs are essentially the same as the ibiza cupra ones..
G60 Corrado is the closest donor as it came with 280mm brakes as std... SAME as ibiza ones, just not painted red

wheel clearance remains the key element here

 

[Robbie C]

Thanks Bill, appreciate your input

 

[Robbie C]

OK, so here's the deal...

I've been speaking to Geoff at HiSpec who seems to think that I will only need to worry about the 30mm clearance in the diagram above as the bell thickness will only effectively add to the offset and not affect this distance? This makes sense to me when you consider that as standard the wheel face sits on top of the brake disc, not directly on the hub.

Anyway.... as per the guide at http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Information Pages/Creating a Wheel Clearance.htm I made my own template tonight using the Mk1/2/3 diagram above (i.e. 30mm caliper clearance) and the result is that you only have about 25-26mm of clearance as standard, falling a few mm short for the Billet 4 kit:

This leaves me with two options:

1) Run a 5mm spacer and fit the 300x22mm Billet 4 kit. Bearing in mind I use this on track is a 5mm spacer OK to use or best avoided? I understand it will affect camber sensitivity but is there anything else I should be concerned about here?

2) Alternatively, I could run the HiSpec R114-4 calipers which I'm informed are 6-7mm thinner than the Billet 4 calipers and this kit would allow a 310mm disc over a 300mm - it's basically replicating the Wilwood superlite setup. The only downside here being that this is a track caliper and so they don't come with dust seals - although some people say you'll probably only melt them anyway?

So, decision time - 300x22mm kit on a 5mm spacer or 310mm kit on a R114-4 caliper (http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/calipers/R114 300 Rad.htm)?

 

[Robbie C]

OK so having read a little more into running spacers on the front hubs it seems the primary issues come down to increased stress on the lugs and ball joints from the "leverage" effect as well as an increased scrub radius which can cause harder steering, more wear on the ball joints and more stress on the lugs.

Obviously it will also affect the geometry of the car but having said all that I don't see 5mm causing any partcular issues but it's still not ideal, and some people report vibrations as at less than ~10mm they're too thin to be hubcentric.

I guess with the R114s I have a much better chance of fitting them behind my standard wheels without any spacer whatsoever so I'll get a quote and see

 

[ibizacupra]

I ran 310 wilwood kit.. no seals on them anyhows.
track use can and does melt dust seals.

my ap's have no seals nor issues in 5 years of running them (yet)

I would go 310 myself

 

[Mat]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but big brakes appears to be a VERY confusing subject unless willing to spend mega bucks on a "ready made kit".

I see Bill mentioned G60 Corrado came with 280 as standard? Did they do a bigger option? Or is it a case at looking on sites, and instead of looking at Seats (as sometimes there's a lack of products), to look under VW instead

Also, what do you class as a "late mk2 golf"?

Really want big brakes, but don't wanna spend silly money

 

[ibizacupra]

dont skimp on brakes..

thinner calipers, 2-piece disks, are often the options for VAG fitment.
AP's are thinner caliper in their range, hi-spec etc do billet ones..

late mk2 golf are ones which have 256mm brakes 1988/89 change over year from memory - ie very similar hubs to ibiza's which run Corrado G60 ones hence sharing the same 280mm brakes of stock

 

[Mat]

True. I don't believe in skimping on brakes and tyres, as they are what keep you on the road! Guss I'm just a pee'd off still as I should have bought some from a member on here for £250 (bargin), but he/she sold them!

Suppose I just need to save a bit more and see what my bonus is next month (got money fro brake now, but always like to have something saved for emergencies )

 

[Mat]

Anyone know if these would fit?

http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=218547

 

[Robbie C]

Mat I ended up ordering the HiSpec R114-4 calipers with 2-piece 310mm discs which should fit behind standard Cupra alloys (2mm spacer at worst) - £1080. Expensive game

 

[cupramillo]

Are they a 4-pot kit?

 

[Robbie C]

Yeah, 4 pot calipers and 310x28mm two-piece discs (ali bells)