Yes that is correct on both counts - wrt 12v being live/not live. I'm also with Admiral but these monitor boxes are still "new" at least the low tech cheap ones that these companies will use!
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Battery drain issue on 1.4SC Ibiza
- Thread starter ZBOYD
- Start date
After having left my car undriven for 4 days, it started straight away whereas before leaving it for 3 days meant having to jump start it.
I can whole-heartily recommend an AA Car Battery Solar Charger, will solve my battery problems as long as there's daylight as in the past few days it's been raining and not much sun but still charges fine, a lot cheaper than the other methods to fix it if you're on a budget!
I can whole-heartily recommend an AA Car Battery Solar Charger, will solve my battery problems as long as there's daylight as in the past few days it's been raining and not much sun but still charges fine, a lot cheaper than the other methods to fix it if you're on a budget!
I might just do that as well as a belt and braces in case I stop using this car for longer periods as it looks like a lot of these cars will not survive long periods out of use even if they don't have a fault.
I'm an AA member so I'll look on their site.
I'm an AA member so I'll look on their site.
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Just a "heads up" with concern to that insurance box, if and when you want to move it to another car, it seems that it will/could cost you £200, just spotted that in another forum posting!
Wow that's mad! I suppose it would be cheaper to ditch them when it comes to renewal time if you plan to change your car within the next insurance term!
Out of curiosity and slightly off topic does anyone know which fuse the telematics box is wired into? (red wire)
http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/tse997/media/image11_zpsrih3jokp.jpg.html?o=0
Well that is not connected to a fuse - I think! What these cheap nasty people seem to have done is to take the power directly from a permanently live bus bar. In my mind that is not the way to do that and rather endorses my thoughts over "these cheap nasty monitor boxes" - seems my thoughts should have extended to the people they employ to fit them.
Now, if you messed about with the wiring like that, and you had an issue with the car, either the car warranty could be voided and/or your insurer would walk away in the event of an electrical fire!
I would have expected at the least, to see a fuse having been removed, a special fused "tap in" thing stuffed back in and the original fuse replaced back on top again - bad, bad, bad!
On your comment about avoiding paying to move the monitor box to another car, I wonder what exactly the t&cs are concerning that on your policy, hopefully the insurers have that worked out what happens then - but I'm sure they will have.
Edit:- I'm guessing that the thinking behind doing it that way is to save (installer) time and money and that no one ever looks behind that panel, or if they do then they will not notice anything as they know nothing! Well by posting that picture you have blown that idea away!
Now, if you messed about with the wiring like that, and you had an issue with the car, either the car warranty could be voided and/or your insurer would walk away in the event of an electrical fire!
I would have expected at the least, to see a fuse having been removed, a special fused "tap in" thing stuffed back in and the original fuse replaced back on top again - bad, bad, bad!
On your comment about avoiding paying to move the monitor box to another car, I wonder what exactly the t&cs are concerning that on your policy, hopefully the insurers have that worked out what happens then - but I'm sure they will have.
Edit:- I'm guessing that the thinking behind doing it that way is to save (installer) time and money and that no one ever looks behind that panel, or if they do then they will not notice anything as they know nothing! Well by posting that picture you have blown that idea away!
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I need a new one too, mine makes noise everytime I turn the steering wheel at one determined poing in both directions and this noise on irregular roads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxYzvy02MhM, I think I will fit an aftermarket, Valeo makes them it costs 114€ vat included, at least the version mine uses because after 2009 they are different, it already made noises but it got worse since I changed the steering wheel.
Do you know if it is an easy job to replace them?
So I guess it's a common failure as too many things in this car at least from I have been experiencing.
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I think that it is quite easy to fit, the harder bit will be taking the steering wheel off, but you have done that before.
Edit:- I think that it needs "calibrated" to the car.
Edit:- I think that it needs "calibrated" to the car.
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My battery voltage after that period in time was 12.35V - though I'd think that your higher ambient temperatures would account for your reading being 0.10V higher.
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Well here I am again! Did something very silly, when we went away to Italy for a week, I chose to book the Ibiza in to the airport car park, so, just in case things went bad, I used the solar charger and kept a booster pack in the boot. Came back to car at 12:30 today and it was sluggish to turn the engine over and I released the key before it "caught", next attempt resulted in the starter motor stalling and the instrument lights going out, I waited 5 minutes and tried again, even worse! Out came the part charged booster pack (Hillbilly battery) - engine turned over quickly and started - thankfully, nothing like a planned disaster to remove any feelings of well being after a week's holiday, especially after needing to get up at 05:40 Italy time (04:40 UK time) to get a transfer back to Malpensa! So I'll need to think a bit more about this, including how much of a drain the solar charger causes when not charging.
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Well I have left this car locked up and not used for 7 days and 2 hours, the same period of time it was left at Edinburgh Airport car park close to the plane park etc, I did fit the battery monitoring lead back on and checked and recorded the battery voltage daily - but I did not fit the solar charger.
I did connect the solar charger to another battery and checked it performance in direct sunlight, not direct sunlight, grey sky and darkness. In direct sunlight the charging current was 150milliamps, not direct sunlight was 45milliamps, grey sky was 20milliamps and in darkness there was no measurable current drain back through the solar charger.
After the 7 days and 2 hours of not being used, I made one final battery voltage measurement - 12.32V, unlocked the car, fitted an analog meter to the monitoring lead and started the car, it started easily with no signs of the battery having been discharged over the week of not being used, during cranking the battery voltage was 10.5V was is okay. I went shopping, 12.5miles, stop and shop, 12.5mikes back home. Then I used my newly purchased (for this job) CTEK Battery Analyser to test the battery and charging, result was "battery = good, CCA = 525EN" the battery is a 540EN CCA but this analyser can only be set in steps of 25A so I used it set at 550EN for this test - so it looks like the battery is good, the charging is okay - but something else is intermittently causing a battery drain. Or, an outside possibility could be high levels of electrical noise being present at where I parked the car at the airport causing issues with the CAN bus, ie EMC issues with the design of this car? Oh bother, not an easy problem to resolve, maybe still down to that car needing its BCM S/W updated but SEAT don't seem to be interested to going down that route, so maybe after its previous visit to the SEAT dealer over two months ago and costing me £465 it still has the same or similar problems!!
I did connect the solar charger to another battery and checked it performance in direct sunlight, not direct sunlight, grey sky and darkness. In direct sunlight the charging current was 150milliamps, not direct sunlight was 45milliamps, grey sky was 20milliamps and in darkness there was no measurable current drain back through the solar charger.
After the 7 days and 2 hours of not being used, I made one final battery voltage measurement - 12.32V, unlocked the car, fitted an analog meter to the monitoring lead and started the car, it started easily with no signs of the battery having been discharged over the week of not being used, during cranking the battery voltage was 10.5V was is okay. I went shopping, 12.5miles, stop and shop, 12.5mikes back home. Then I used my newly purchased (for this job) CTEK Battery Analyser to test the battery and charging, result was "battery = good, CCA = 525EN" the battery is a 540EN CCA but this analyser can only be set in steps of 25A so I used it set at 550EN for this test - so it looks like the battery is good, the charging is okay - but something else is intermittently causing a battery drain. Or, an outside possibility could be high levels of electrical noise being present at where I parked the car at the airport causing issues with the CAN bus, ie EMC issues with the design of this car? Oh bother, not an easy problem to resolve, maybe still down to that car needing its BCM S/W updated but SEAT don't seem to be interested to going down that route, so maybe after its previous visit to the SEAT dealer over two months ago and costing me £465 it still has the same or similar problems!!
Well a slight update, now a couple or so months on from getting that initial repair done to stop "battery drain" over a 5>7 day period resolved, it has annoyed me enough to hand this car back into my SEAT dealer for further investigation. I handed the car in last Wednesday and as they have not contacted me I phoned today to find that they have not been able to "see" any abnormal "current draw" while the car is not being used. This I assume is them working to the VW Group workshop instructions.
So, that means that by using the correct pathway to getting this issue resolved has resulted in no fault found (NFF)!
While leaving the customer with a car that can not be trusted to start if left for 5>7 days.
So far, although I wrote on my summary of what has been happening "next step is to formally request that the present BCM management software is checked against SEAT's latest issue and re-flashed if necessary" - and that document was handed in with the car, and it sounds like they have read it, has gone without comment or action!
So, what do SEAT dealers think is acceptable when one of their products becomes unusable/unreliable but can not be fault found and resolved by their trained techs?
So, that means that by using the correct pathway to getting this issue resolved has resulted in no fault found (NFF)!
While leaving the customer with a car that can not be trusted to start if left for 5>7 days.
So far, although I wrote on my summary of what has been happening "next step is to formally request that the present BCM management software is checked against SEAT's latest issue and re-flashed if necessary" - and that document was handed in with the car, and it sounds like they have read it, has gone without comment or action!
So, what do SEAT dealers think is acceptable when one of their products becomes unusable/unreliable but can not be fault found and resolved by their trained techs?
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Well, unfortunately that (multi franchise) dealer sent me a letter informing me that they were closing that operation on 31st October 2016! This is mainly what prompted me to take that car back to them as they had repaired a fault that was causing battery drain about 3 months ago. They are an "old style" multi franchise supporting SAAB, Alfa Romeo, SEAT and Suzuki and are located in town - which goes against the trend to have dealerships now located out of town in cheaper areas with more expansion possibilities. That land will now be sold for high quality housing development and boost that dealer group's money figures a bit!
There is another SEAT dealer locally, but maybe, until now, not my chosen favourite place to go to!
I was given the telephone number of SEAT UK and that dealer suggested that I talk to them and they should be able to authorise further investigate as I am a loyal customer.
At the moment I have removed the earth lead and am going to monitor the battery voltage over the next week - as a final check that it is still the connected load that is discharging that battery, before talking to SEAT or going to the other SEAT dealer to ask them to check for BCM management software updates and apply them.
There is another SEAT dealer locally, but maybe, until now, not my chosen favourite place to go to!
I was given the telephone number of SEAT UK and that dealer suggested that I talk to them and they should be able to authorise further investigate as I am a loyal customer.
At the moment I have removed the earth lead and am going to monitor the battery voltage over the next week - as a final check that it is still the connected load that is discharging that battery, before talking to SEAT or going to the other SEAT dealer to ask them to check for BCM management software updates and apply them.
Well as far as selectively removing fuses while monitoring battery voltage over a period of 3 days, I've finally found that when fuse 48 - locking system, is removed and all others are fitted, there is very little battery drain, car being locked up manually. When fuse 48 is refitted, battery drain becomes excessive when monitored daily - but no faults being logged on central locking! Time to get acquainted with Erwin SEAT area and download the schematics connector positions etc!!
Well I think that what I've written above in my last posting has been proved to be wrong. As a final check/test before heading for the dealer or digging deeper, I parked this car in the garage and left it unlocked with the bonnet open - bad news, big battery drain even although the central locking fuse was left out - this is a first for me while running checks/tests on this car! Final check/test was to repeat this with the bonnet closed - same result big battery drain!!
I then refitted the only fuse that I had removed, fuse 48 the central locking fuse and went for a 30 mile run and this time parked the car outside the garage.
Left bonnet up and car unlocked, initial current drain was 0.11amp, waited one hour, same current drain, waited another 0.5 hour, same current drain!
Removed all the fuses that have power on them when the car door is opened - current drain now 0.06amp! Repeated that again after another 1.5 hours!
Removed the heavy red lead that supplies all the consumers controlled by the BCM(?) - current draw now 0.00amps!
So, either I'm back with one of the controlled modules generating noise on the CAN BUS and keeping it awake, or the BCM is faulty, or the BCM management software needs updating - though I would have thought that if it was just the BCM management software version issue that I would have always got consistent results?
Any thoughts from anyone that has had practical experience of this as it now looks like a trip to local SEAT dealer and some investigation, and probably repeating what I've paid for already at my last, but now closed SEAT dealership, I'd like to avoid paying twice for that investigation time!
I then refitted the only fuse that I had removed, fuse 48 the central locking fuse and went for a 30 mile run and this time parked the car outside the garage.
Left bonnet up and car unlocked, initial current drain was 0.11amp, waited one hour, same current drain, waited another 0.5 hour, same current drain!
Removed all the fuses that have power on them when the car door is opened - current drain now 0.06amp! Repeated that again after another 1.5 hours!
Removed the heavy red lead that supplies all the consumers controlled by the BCM(?) - current draw now 0.00amps!
So, either I'm back with one of the controlled modules generating noise on the CAN BUS and keeping it awake, or the BCM is faulty, or the BCM management software needs updating - though I would have thought that if it was just the BCM management software version issue that I would have always got consistent results?
Any thoughts from anyone that has had practical experience of this as it now looks like a trip to local SEAT dealer and some investigation, and probably repeating what I've paid for already at my last, but now closed SEAT dealership, I'd like to avoid paying twice for that investigation time!
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Well 2 days on since I replaced the engine coolant temperature sensor and everything is back behaving itself! Battery current draw when all systems are awake is 177milli amps, 1 hour later when all controlled systems have been shut down by the on board power supply controller, or BCM, battery current draw is 4.7milli amps.
Now to me, the previous "fix" applied by the SEAT main dealer back in May/June 2016, which was a working steering angle sensor which was causing noise in the comms bus seemed a bit unlikely, but me finding a stored fault code for the engine coolant temperature sensor, which might also have been causing noise in the comms bus - replacing it and finding the battery drain had reverted to what is to be expected, also seems a bit unlikely, though so far so good!
Now to me, the previous "fix" applied by the SEAT main dealer back in May/June 2016, which was a working steering angle sensor which was causing noise in the comms bus seemed a bit unlikely, but me finding a stored fault code for the engine coolant temperature sensor, which might also have been causing noise in the comms bus - replacing it and finding the battery drain had reverted to what is to be expected, also seems a bit unlikely, though so far so good!
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