another poor mpg after camshaft replacement

[0770chris23]

hi everyone, I know this topic pops up a lot and I try not to ask repeat threads but I can find loads of people saying they have this problem but people don't post when they have found the cause of it

so a bit of background I bought my leon cupra tdi last June and the camshaft ate a follower very soon after buying it , I had a engine rebuild by a reputable engine building company at a cost of £1350 including a full top end rebuild and piston rings , bottom end bearings etc and all mechanically seems fine 8k later but I have had poor mpg since and a bit less power as well,
I have changed the maf , map sensor , temp sensor checked for boost leaks and blanked the egr but I still struggle to get over 32 mpg with mixed driving where it used to be high 40s

this seems to be a common thing after a camshaft change but has anyone ever sorted it out ? I'm running out of patience with it now

any ideas anyone ?

thanks in advance

 

[sockpuppet]

Probably need to get a full VCDS/VAG-COM on there and check measurements. I think you can check the timing on there and I'm sure you can check air and fuel requests and what is being received.

I had choco cam 70000 miles ago but never had an issue with MPG after replacement, I was getting over 40MPG with a hole in the lifter and the no1 cam being worn out of shape and it was straight back to 45 -50 MPG after the cam/lifters were replaced.

 

[0770chris23]

hi thanks for the reply , its been on vcds regularly with everything looking as it should be no faults showing up , the garage are going to double check the timing on Wednesday now but they say it will be fine , so i don't know what to think

 

[sockpuppet]

If you have vcds you can go into measuring blocks and check the readings (may need to post in the vcds section for settings or what to look for)
Here is a post on measuring fuel requested/actual http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=285129&highlight=vag-com+measuring+fuel&page=2
You can also do this for the MAF and EGR readings (Not sure whether it still works for blanked EGR)
I'm sure there is a measuring block for timing as well.

 

[0770chris23]

hi I have vcds full and I did a log today but don't know how to convert it to a graph and upload it , could I possibly email it to someone to help me out with it ? thanks

 

[0770chris23]

Group A: '003
Engine speed MAF (specified) MAF (actual) EGR duty cycle
TIME 790-870 230-350 210-370 40-75%
STAMP /min mg/str mg/str %
0.36 1428 250 499.8 65.7
1.44 1491 850 617.4 4.8
2.52 1659 850 828.1 4.8
3.58 1890 850 1087.8 4.8
4.66 2226 850 1200.5 4.8
5.74 2562 850 1249.5 4.8
6.82 2898 850 1249.5 4.8
7.9 3192 850 1220.1 4.8
8.98 3486 850 1185.8 4.8
10.06 3759 850 1146.6 4.8
11.14 4011 850 1117.2 4.8
12.22 4242 850 1068.2 4.8


Group B: '008
Engine speed IQ driver's req IQ via rpm(Torq) IQ via MAF
TIME 2850-3150 65-70 52-54 52-60
STAMP /min mg/str mg/str mg/str
0.72 1428 8.8 44.5 26.1
1.8 1533 69.7 48.6 41.2
2.88 1743 69.7 53 59.6
3.94 1995 69.7 60.4 69.2
5.02 2352 69.7 63.7 68.9
6.1 2667 69.7 63.7 68.4
7.18 3003 69.7 63.7 67.8
8.26 3297 69.7 63.7 67.8
9.34 3591 69.7 63.7 67.8
10.42 3843 69.7 63.7 67.8
11.5 4095 69.5 62.9 67
12.58 4305 68.6 58.2 66.2


Group C: '010
MAF Atmos. pressure Intake air press. Throttle
TIME 1000-1250 sensor -f96- 2200-2800 100%
STAMP mg/str %
0 494.9 1020 1128 0
1.08 573.3 1020 1176 75.3
2.16 744.8 1020 1560 100
3.22 989.8 1020 2088 100
4.3 1239.7 1020 2568 100
5.38 1234.8 1020 2712 100
6.46 1249.5 1020 2664 100
7.54 1229.9 1020 2604 100
8.62 1190.7 1020 2592 100
9.7 1176 1020 2592 100
10.78 1117.2 1020 2580 100
11.86 1073.1 1020 2520 100


that's all I can do with them at the moment if that means anything to anyone ?

 

[Adam4D]

who remapped it?

whats the cambelt sync angle?


Have the injector stops been adjusted correctly?

 

[0770chris23]

hi i remapped it myself about 6k ago to rule out a bad standard map but either mapped or standard the mpg is terrible and it feels as if its holding back it definitely isn't running full power , the logs i did today were with the standard map on .

the sync angel i think is 0.0 -0.5 or torsion value I'm not sure now

and the injectors i'm told were set to 225 degrees

thanks

 

[Adam4D]

That log isn't standard as the it's injecting more than 54mg at 4000rpm.

All Pd Injectors should be set to 180 off stop. Reset and try again.

This is my pd150 average mpg over a 20mile drive of motorway and A roads plus 50mph average speed zone, all in 530pm traffic. no duration cheating and no resetting of the mfd and more power than yours has. On my own developed tune.

 

[0770chris23]

hi i was led to believe that was a standard map i bought to replace my standard map and also bought a tuned remap which is normally on there

i will ask the garage to adjust the injectors i know small changes can have a big difference but do you think it could be something that simple ?

would you mind sharing your map for me to try ? i bought mine off pd developments with the egr mapped out but power wise its not great at the moment but hopefully better when the issues are fixed

thanks again

 

[Adam4D]

Yes, if the injector stops aren't set correctly your lowering the fuel delivery pressure and the amount of fuel being delivered per injection event will be less, causing a lack of power aswell as other influences.

I've spoken to lee at pd developments before and seen his pd130 maps but never a pd150 map from him.

Looking at the log of injection quantity I know you have room for a good increase in power.
Log your start of injection and injection duration and post it up so I can check he hasn't duration cheated.

With all the time and development I've put into my tune I will not give it up for free sorry.

 

[0770chris23]

hi , yeah i agree with the theory behind the injectors i just trusted a company that does them all the time i don't know where they have got 225 from then ,

my girlfriend has the car at work but i don't mind sending you my map if you want a look at those figures i spoke to him on the phone a few times he seems a nice bloke he said my car should take off like a rocket with the map on he did but at the moment its the same sort of power as my sisters standard pd150 leon

thanks

 

[Adam4D]

I work for audi as a tech buddy so have the latest information even my car is set to 180 after a new cam. So I can tell you with confidence it should be all 180 off the stop if you need any more proof I can screenshot or something the Elsa instructions for an audi a3 pd130 which is the same bar the turbo.

If you can msg me on here I'll have a look and even supply you an 100% original file if you haven't got one. But I can give you some confidence that lee does good maps so yours must be a mechanical issue

 

[0770chris23]

hi . i believe you i have read it should be 180 but others have said 225, yesterday i was talking to craig at cas engineering where the engine got built and he was saying everything will be fine but he will check the timing tomorrow because he knows iv tried everything external to the engine and thats when i mentioned the the injectors wondering if they weren't 100% set right and he said they are set at 225

if you pm me your email address i will email my map to you

thanks again

 

[0770chris23]

i just remembered something else my car on tick over on vcds is using 0.8 litres / hour but my sisters and other peoples on forums are only using 0.6 litres/ hour so its over fueling quite a lot even on tick over but its clean running i get hardly any smoke which i find odd

 

[Adam4D]

Can't send you a pm Chris

 

[0770chris23]

i don't know how to do it to be honest

cheers

 

[0770chris23]

hi , just an update the car has been in the garage this morning the timing was perfect , the injector plunge has been checked and was set right and the compression was perfect so they have said my injectors need reconditioning as the injector balance is all over and not far off the -3 - +3 limits

can anyone recommend anywhere for injector reconditioning?

thanks

 

[Adam4D]

Have the seals been changed during all this head work?

New camshaft disturbs the old seals and they fail not long after. As seals go hard with time. False economy to not change the injector seals when doing a camshaft replacement

 

[0770chris23]

hi yeah the seals were changed and new strength bolts so they should be right really
cheers