2000 Toledo 1.6 SR too much fuel consumption

[d_darko]

hi everybody. my car is 2000 year, Seat Toledo 1.6 SR, 8 valve AKL engine. My car stopping too much, so took my car to a mechanic. He told me to replace Throttle body and ECU. I replaced them with new ones. But now, my car cant show me the fuel consumption, and the throttle body was not applied adaptation. I calculated fuel consumption, it is twice then the normal fuel consumption. What is the reason of this? when i change the speed from first gear to second, my car does not jump forward. and while the engine is working, i smell fuel patron from the exhaust...

when i connect to ECU by VAG908, i have seen that there are fault codes about throttle position sensor, throttle and etc.

can you help me?

 

[Slimy]

When a throttle body or ECU is replaced, it is essential that the throttle body is aligned. This article should help;

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/throttlebody.html

 

[d_darko]

I know the issue about throttle body adaptation. I'll make it done and check what is the situation. maybe the fuel consumption will be normal after adaptation, but i am not sure. Because while the engine is working, i smell patrol. it looks like the engine is exhausting raw fuel.

i'll let you know the final situation. bye

 

[SHADY-NINJA]

Lamba sensor!
If this goes then the car will drink like mad

 

[SHADY-NINJA]

Lamba sensor!
If this goes then the car will drink like mad

 

[d_darko]

I think my car doesn't have catalytic a convertor. i guess ex-owner of my car has made it dismantled. I couldn't see it when my car was lifted. But i saw sensor cables under the car.

If there no catalytic convertor, does it cause much more fuel consumption?

 

[Slimy]

The lambda sensor isn't associated with the catalytic convertor, they do two different jobs. It is quite easy to remove the convertor and leave the sensor. It is unlikely to be missing as it would flag an ECU code, however as shady ninja said it could be broke.

But my money is still on the throttle body or perhaps the air flow meter at a push. While you're in VAG-COM getting the throttle body aligned, take a look at the fault codes and see if there is anything there. If there is a fault with one of the sensors you will normally get at least some indication.

 

[d_darko]

i have found my cars VAG-COM log file. Here are all of the fault codes:

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-019-AEH.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 019
Component: 1.6l R4/2V SIMOS HS2387
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 35843

3 Faults Found:
00516 - Closed Throttle (Idle) Position Switch (F60)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
00282 - Throttle Position Actuator (V60)
17-00 - Control Difference
00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation
19-10 - Lower Limit - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 6Q0 909 605 A
Component: 1G AIRBAG VW5 0004
Coding: 12615
Shop #: WSC 00046

1 Fault Found:
01218 - Side Airbag Igniter; Passenger Side (N200)
32-10 - Resistance too High - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1J0 959 799 AH
Component: 8N Zentral-SG Komf. 0001
Coding: 04097
Shop #: WSC 00046

Part No: 1J0959801F
Component: 8N Tõrsteuerger. FS0002r

Part No: 1J0959802G
Component: 8N Tõrsteuerger. BF0002B

Part No: 1J4959811C
Component: 8N Tõrsteuerger. HL0002H

Part No: 1J4959812C
Component: 8N Tõrsteuerger. HR0002H

6 Faults Found:
00953 - Interior Light Time limit
25-10 - Unknown Switch Condition - Intermittent
01135 - Interior Monitoring Sensors
36-00 - Open Circuit
00943 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Driver Side (Z4)
35-00 - -
00913 - Window Regulator Switch; Front Right Driver (E81)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00944 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Passenger Side (Z5)
35-00 - -
00935 - Electric Window Motor; Rear Right (V27)
35-10 - - - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
Part No: 1M0 035 186 C
Component: Radio 0001
Coding: 00401
Shop #: WSC 00046

1 Fault Found:
00852 - Loudspeaker(s); Front
36-10 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Slimy]

The first two sound like they're associated with the throttle body alignment. The third engine one points to the lambda sensor, but it is intermittent so I'd get the first two sorted first before replacing the sensor.

The airbag one could be a loose connection? The convenience faults could again be loose connections. And I never even knew the radio could detect a loose loudspeaker!

You mention this is a log file, does this mean that these faults are from before you replaced the throttle body? In that case, I'd ignore them and get another scan done.

 

[d_darko]

You are right, i think first two are about throttle body. I couldn't find a laptop so i couldn't make a scan with VAGCOM and throttle body adaptation after replacing it.

I'll try to find a solution(maybe replacing) lambda sensor. But i am worried about this, because my car has LPG and here, many cars using LPG has "lambda sensor" problem. I mean it is a usual problem for the cars using LPG. You know, the fuel-air mixture ratio and LPG-air mixture ratios are not same, so the lambda sensor detects problem.

The first two sound like they're associated with the throttle body alignment. The third engine one points to the lambda sensor, but it is intermittent so I'd get the first two sorted first before replacing the sensor.

The airbag one could be a loose connection? The convenience faults could again be loose connections. And I never even knew the radio could detect a loose loudspeaker!

You mention this is a log file, does this mean that these faults are from before you replaced the throttle body? In that case, I'd ignore them and get another scan done.

 

[Slimy]

Ah, you didn't mention LPG. Is that why you've had to replace the ECU and the throttle body?

It's cheaper to get the fault codes than it is to replace the lambda sensor, especially when the fault codes will give more of a clue as to what is actually wrong. A lambda sensor is not cheap and quite painful if it doesn't fix the issue.

I don't know much about LPG, do you have to remap the car to use it?

 

[d_darko]

Maybe you know, fuel is really expensive in my country, Turkey. LPG is nearly half of fuel. So many people refer LPG to fuel. So a conversion kit is applied to the cars. LPG system has its own ECU. if the LPG system is not adjusted correctly, there becomes some faults about the car. But if it was applied ok, there is no problem, no fault codes, no power loss etc.

One of the common problem of LPG system, lambda sensor fault. The air-fuel mixture and air-LPG mixture are different. so lambda sensor gives errors.

But i am not sure about my car. It's clear that my car is using too much fuel (its using too much LPG too, two times than normal consumption).

Ah, you didn't mention LPG. Is that why you've had to replace the ECU and the throttle body?

It's cheaper to get the fault codes than it is to replace the lambda sensor, especially when the fault codes will give more of a clue as to what is actually wrong. A lambda sensor is not cheap and quite painful if it doesn't fix the issue.

I don't know much about LPG, do you have to remap the car to use it?

 

[Slimy]

LPG is also used here in the UK, and I do know that most VAG engines are capable of accepting it with a few tweaks. Unfortunately my knowledge of LPG is virtually zero.

If the lambda sensor doesn't like LPG and gives errors, does that have to be swapped for a different one? Or do you ignore the faults?

Have you been able to get hold of a laptop to check the engine codes?

(By the way, your English is better than some English people! )

 

[d_darko]

i am not sure if it is necessary to replace the lambda sensor with new one. if i find a spare time, i'll take my car to a mechanic to check the whole system. then, i'll decite what to do.

 

[d_darko]

hi again my friends...

last week, i took my car to a different mechanic to apply throttle body adaptation. but he failed too. the ecu still gives errors. because he said that the throttle body is"made in china", so adaptation can not me completed.

we replaced the ECU with my cars original. I traveled 300kms to my homeland to see my parents. AC was always on during the travel. (i used LPG) i checked the fuel consumption, i saw that its nearly normal but it must be a little less than this. the mechanic said that if i dont use original throttle body, it causes much more fuel consumption.

so, i am looking for original throttle body now...

see u

 

[Slimy]

Ah, that is interesting. I have to admit I would only ever use decent electrical items. SEAT (well, all VAG) seem to suffer from electrical gremlins, and I took the view that no-brand parts would only make it worse.

You should be able to get a Bosch or similar branded throttle body for not much money though?

 

[d_darko]

hi.
i have not written anthing for a while. now, i want to tell you some news...

i have bought a new throttle body. i replaced the old one. then, tried to apply throttle body adaptation but unfortunately i couldn't it gives errors. the engine idle speed is not stable and the fuel consumption is still too much. when is turn on the AC, the engine looses more power. i dont know what to do.

i have got another ECU (Golf IV).i tried it before but it didnt work compatible, computer didnt show fuel consumptions.

can you show me the way?

on the otherhand, i have problems with the exhaust system. i need a new complete exhaust system (including catalytic converter).

 

[d_darko]

Hi... my car's problems still go on... I need your help.

I connect vagcom 10.6.2 to my car and tried to watch the fault codes. I saw that the vagcom does not control all of the control modules. When i do auto scan,it shows engine and ABS brakes, it doesn't show airbags, cent.conv., radio, auto hvac. Do you know why?

And here are some fault codes i read with original ECU:

Chassis Type: 1M - Seat Leon/Toledo
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 22 35 36 37 46 56

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-019-AEH.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 019 BR
Component: 1.6l 2V/R4 SIMOS HS3319
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 74ECC05428E139BC

3 Faults Found:
00282 - Throttle Position Actuator (V60)
44-00 -- Short Circuit
00538 - Reference Voltage
18-10 -- Upper Limit - Intermittent
17991 - Transmission Mount Valves (N262/N263): Short to Plus
P1583 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 379 P
Component: ABS 20 IE CAN 0001
Coding: 03504
Shop #: WSC 00046
VCID: 3E78227C562DA3EC

No fault code found.
*****************************************
Chassis Type: 1M - Seat Leon/Toledo
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 22 35 36 37 46 56

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-019-AEH.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 019 BR
Component: 1.6l 2V/R4 SIMOS HS3319
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 74ECC05428E139BC

7 Faults Found:
00282 - Throttle Position Actuator (V60)
44-00 -- Short Circuit
00538 - Reference Voltage
18-10 -- Upper Limit - Intermittent
17991 - Transmission Mount Valves (N262/N263): Short to Plus
P1583 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
00534 - Engine Oil Temperature Sensor (G8)
30-10 -- Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
30-10 -- Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00525 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)
31-10 -- Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation
30-10 -- Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 379 P
Component: ABS 20 IE CAN 0001
Coding: 03504
Shop #: WSC 00046
VCID: 3E78227C562DA3EC

No fault code found.
************************************************

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-019-AEH.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 06A 906 019 BR
Component and/or Version: 1.6l 2V/R4 SIMOS HS3319
Software Coding: 00031
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000
VCID: 74ECC05428E139BC
7 Faults Found:

00282 - Throttle Position Actuator (V60)
44-00 -- Short Circuit
00538 - Reference Voltage
18-10 -- Upper Limit - Intermittent
17991 - Transmission Mount Valves (N262/N263): Short to Plus
P1583 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
00534 - Engine Oil Temperature Sensor (G8)
30-10 -- Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
30-10 -- Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00525 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)
31-10 -- Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation
30-10 -- Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

Readiness: N/A
*****************************
Then i have changed the original ECU with another ecu which was programmed for my car before. But i does not show fuel consumption. it always shows "zero".

Chassis Type: 1M - Seat Leon/Toledo
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 22 35 36 37 46 56

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-019-AEH.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 019
Component: 1.6l R4/2V SIMOS HS2387
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 35843
VCID: E0C43C040C19351C

1 Fault Found:
00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation
18-10 -- Upper Limit - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 379 P
Component: ABS 20 IE CAN 0001
Coding: 03504
Shop #: WSC 00046
VCID: 3E78227C562DA3EC

No fault code found.
*************************************
Chassis Type: 1M - Seat Leon/Toledo
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 22 35 36 37 46 56

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-019-AEH.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 019 BR
Component: 1.6l 2V/R4 SIMOS HS3319
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 74ECC05428E139BC

3 Faults Found:
00282 - Throttle Position Actuator (V60)
44-00 -- Short Circuit
00538 - Reference Voltage
18-10 -- Upper Limit - Intermittent
17991 - Transmission Mount Valves (N262/N263): Short to Plus
P1583 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 379 P
Component: ABS 20 IE CAN 0001
Coding: 03504
Shop #: WSC 00046
VCID: 3E78227C562DA3EC

No fault code found.
************************************
Chassis Type: 1M - Seat Leon/Toledo
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 22 35 36 37 46 56

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-019-AEH.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 019
Component: 1.6l R4/2V SIMOS HS2387
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 35843
VCID: E0C43C040C19351C

1 Fault Found:
00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation
18-10 -- Upper Limit - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 379 P
Component: ABS 20 IE CAN 0001
Coding: 03504
Shop #: WSC 00046
VCID: 3E78227C562DA3EC

No fault code found.
****************************************

Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 6Q0 909 605 A
Component and/or Version: 1G AIRBAG VW5 0004
Software Coding: 12615
Work Shop Code: WSC 00046
VCID: 356A3D50631B60B4
4 Faults Found:

01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
49-10 -- No Communications - Intermittent
01286 - Belt Tensioner; Drivers Side; Disabled
35-00 -- -
01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
35-00 -- -
01291 - Left Rear Side Airbag Shut-Off Key Switch (E297)
35-00 -- -
**********************************************
THIS IS THE LAST SCAN I HAVE DONE, AFTER CLEANING THE FAULT CODES:
Chassis Type: 1M - Seat Leon/Toledo
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 22 35 36 37 46 56

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-019-AEH.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 019
Component: 1.6l R4/2V SIMOS HS2387
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 35843
VCID: E0C43C040C19351C

No fault code found.
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 379 P
Component: ABS 20 IE CAN 0001
Coding: 03504
Shop #: WSC 00046
VCID: 3E78227C562DA3EC

No fault code found.
************************************

I cant be sure about the fault codes, which one is real, which one is not.
With original ECU, my car doesnot work well, its power is really weak and too much fuel consumption, there is no throttle body adaptation. For example when i turn on the HVAC, the engine speed decreases from 850 to 500, or the engine stops. With the other ECU, theere is throttle body adaptation(i am not sure but TB works better), there is much more power at the engine, when i turn on the HVAC, it balanced the engine rev.

But the second ECU always show fuel consumption as "0" (zero).

I have bought a new(used) ecu with the same part number with my car's original ECU, but i cant work my car because of immobilizer.

I have ordered new lambda sensor, when it comes, i hope there will be no lambda sensor fault (it is not cleaned with vagcom).

I will also buy a new knock sensor. (while the engine is working, it sounds something is wrong, it hits as "tak tak tak...", i think the reason is knock sensor).

 

[d_darko]

Thank you guys... You help me too much