Code 16396 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Advance Setpoint not Reached (Over-Retarded

8bit · Dec 9, 2010

Folks,

Had my car in the garage last week for some bits and pieces, including changing a leaky rocker cover gasket/seal. I'd also had the throttle body cleaned and reset and the car scanned for fault codes as the EML was on. I asked for a printout of the codes but they said they didn't have one "but all the codes were to do with the throttle body, it was really dirty and sticking".

Got the car back and less than 24 hours later I get the EML on again. Just got a basic code reader and I have two codes. One is 17705, pressure drop between throttle and turbo which I think is because the dump valve is sticking open at the moment (service kit on the way) but also got 16396 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Advance Setpoint not Reached (Over-Retarded)

I have checked the Ross Tech website here and done a search in the mk1 Leon and VAGCOM sections and seen a number of potential causes. Some people suggest the oil pickup, this did get blocked a few months back, had oil pressure warnings and the same garage dropped and cleaned out the sump and whatnot, then did an engine flush and put new oil and filter in so I doubt it could be that.

When I got the car back last week the garage said they'd reset the fault codes and the EML was gone so I can only presume these two codes have been logged since then. What I'm wondering is if they've had the rocker cover off to change the gaskets and seals then could they have reassembled something wrong, causing the camshaft sensor code? Or, could it be related to the dump valve sticking open?

I haven't yet cleared the codes but I will do then check again in a couple of days or as soon as the EML comes back on, unless it's not safe to drive the car like this?

Thanks in advance
8bit

seatcupramad23 · Dec 9, 2010

8bit said:
Folks,

Had my car in the garage last week for some bits and pieces, including changing a leaky rocker cover gasket/seal. I'd also had the throttle body cleaned and reset and the car scanned for fault codes as the EML was on. I asked for a printout of the codes but they said they didn't have one "but all the codes were to do with the throttle body, it was really dirty and sticking".

Got the car back and less than 24 hours later I get the EML on again. Just got a basic code reader and I have two codes. One is 17705, pressure drop between throttle and turbo which I think is because the dump valve is sticking open at the moment (service kit on the way) but also got 16396 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Advance Setpoint not Reached (Over-Retarded)

I have checked the Ross Tech website here and done a search in the mk1 Leon and VAGCOM sections and seen a number of potential causes. Some people suggest the oil pickup, this did get blocked a few months back, had oil pressure warnings and the same garage dropped and cleaned out the sump and whatnot, then did an engine flush and put new oil and filter in so I doubt it could be that.

When I got the car back last week the garage said they'd reset the fault codes and the EML was gone so I can only presume these two codes have been logged since then. What I'm wondering is if they've had the rocker cover off to change the gaskets and seals then could they have reassembled something wrong, causing the camshaft sensor code? Or, could it be related to the dump valve sticking open?

I haven't yet cleared the codes but I will do then check again in a couple of days or as soon as the EML comes back on, unless it's not safe to drive the car like this?

Thanks in advance
8bit

your first code doesn't often mean to do dv, it's often a boost or vacuum leak with could also cause the 2nd code basically your car is running lean due it the fuel/air ratio not being correct too much fuel not enough air

8bit · Dec 9, 2010

seatcupramad23 said:
your first code doesn't often mean to do dv, it's often a boost or vacuum leak with could also cause the 2nd code basically your car is running lean due it the fuel/air ratio not being correct too much fuel not enough air

I know the DV is sticking open thought, I've taken it off and done the push test and it sometimes sticks open, hence I was kind of expecting that code. What makes you think the car is running rich, because there is a drop in air pressure between the MAF and the MAP sensor? Could this be causing the camshaft position sensor to appear faulty?

seatcupramad23 · Dec 10, 2010

if air isn't circulating properly that means your car will be overfueling, i had the exact same codes together cause by a split boost hose and changed it cleared the codes and never came back so left me to think they're linked

8bit · Dec 10, 2010

OK cheers, I'll get the DV serviced and clear the codes, then see what happens. Was hoping the service kit would have arrived today but no joy

seatcupramad23 · Dec 10, 2010

good luck mate

8bit · Dec 10, 2010

Cheers, I must be due some good luck with this car by now, had a lot of problems lately! Will post back once I've made some progress.

T108 · Dec 10, 2010

this forum has to much miss information on it.

the second code is nothing to do with AFR

its to do with cam timing, either the intake timing is out (cam to cam chain could have been disturbed with the rocker covers off) or the camshaft sensor has issue.

MJ · Dec 11, 2010

T108 said:
this forum has to much miss information on it.

the second code is nothing to do with AFR

its to do with cam timing, either the intake timing is out (cam to cam chain could have been disturbed with the rocker covers off) or the camshaft sensor has issue.

its nice to see that someone else spotted that crap.

It is indeed a timing fault meaning the timing cannot advance to the point it should.

"Fuel trim too lean/ too rich" are fuelling faults normally caused by split PCV pipes.

8bit · Dec 11, 2010

OK so do you two (T108 and MJ) think that on that basis I should be taking the car back to the garage I used last week then? I've never seen that code on this car before I got it back from getting the rocker cover seal replaced last week, but then I've never known the DV stick open either.

Besides the EML light on at the moment the other symptoms I'm getting is that maybe 50% of the time if I floor it the turbo doesn't seem to spin up - by that what I mean is if I floor it sometimes I get a bit of induction noise (but not as much as usual) but I don't hear the turbo whistle and there's no boost. Usually if this happens if I close the throttle completely then floor it again then the turbo will spin up then. Could that be related?

T108 · Dec 11, 2010

yes go back.

8bit · Dec 11, 2010

Just had a thought. The garage kept the car in an extra day because they said at one point it wasn't idling or revving properly. Am thinking maybe the first time they put the rocker cover back together perhaps they did something wrong and sorted it the next day? If that's the case then that may be why that code is still left there?

Reason I'm wondering that is because the Ross Tech page I linked to in the original post does say symptoms of this fault will be rough idle, but it idles fine since I've had it back from the garage. I'm happy to take the car back but it's a trek to get to and from the place the garage is and I'm not exactly flush this month. Would it be a really bad idea to clear the code and check it daily for a few days to see if it returns?

8bit · Dec 13, 2010

OK well decided to try it so went out just now and cleared the codes, then took the car for a short run, warmed it up a bit first before giving it any real stick then booted it a little on the way back. Checked codes again and now I have 16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced).

Seems a bit strange I had one and now the other, in that initially it was over-retarded but now it's showing over-advanced. I'll call the garage this afternoon but wondered if anyone had any ideas what to check for, besides whats in the above link and the one in the original post?

ibizacupra · Dec 14, 2010

they cant have effected cam timing from just the rocker gasket change... UNLESS, the leaky gasket was the one under the VVT unit..

your erratic cam timing is likely your vvt tensioner playing up, either faulty or the previous oil pressure issue is manifesting itself again. Check electrical connection to the unit are ok tho.. could be a simple case of not quite plugged in fully.. you never know.

8bit · Dec 14, 2010

Thanks Bill - see the image below, is that the thing you're talking about, in the top left?

ibizacupra · Dec 14, 2010

yes, thats the vvt plug.

8bit · Dec 14, 2010

Thanks Bill. I've just been out and checked it, seemed to be connected fine but removed and reconnected it to check the contacts weren't broken. Cleared the code and went for a quick run but the 16395 has come back. I had the car scanned not long after the oil pressure problem before and there was no sign of either of these codes then, plus its' not been that long really since the oil pressure problem anyway so I'd be surprised if it was that - unless you know better?

If it's not that then from what you say I guess it's the VVT tensioner. Is that a DIY fix? Is that rocker cover off again?

ibizacupra · Dec 14, 2010

rocker off yes.

8bit · Dec 14, 2010

OK thanks again. Rang the garage, they're waiting on a response from someone at my local Seat dealer, have to ring them back in the morning. Am I running a risk of doing further damage by driving the car at the moment?

8bit · Dec 15, 2010

Bump - anyone able to tell me if I'm risking serious damage by driving the car with this fault? I'm supposed to be driving to my folks for Christmas next week (220 miles each way) and the garage I usually use haven't been able to talk to anyone that can help. I'm going to be struggling to get this sorted this close to Christmas if it can't wait...

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