Cupra or FR TDI

robdf2 · Nov 23, 2008

As you know i have a Cupra , but today i drove my girlfreinds 57 plate FR Tdi , she said it had a few noises and wanted me to drive and see if i noticed them.

Well i have always argued with her saying that the Cupra was a far superior car faster and much smoother but boy was i about to eat humble pie !

All i can say is wow what a great package , first impressions were you sure this is diesel?
the only thing giving it away was the tractor noise coming from the front.(please dont flame me :blink:

)

The power and torque are just amazing , power when you want it (as long as you are in the right gear) , i found the ride softer and smoother than my Cupra.

The only real let down on the package for me was the brakes , even my girlfreind thinks they are the weak point

out on the real world roads i dont think there would be a lot in it between the 2 cars . i was so surprised just how good this car was i would say a lot quicker than my old 1.8 remapped cupra imo.
After my little test drive she asked about the noises , er what noises i said? was just having too much fun to listen for noises.
i just wonder now how good these will be once remapped?

If i had had a back to back demo of each car before i bought mine it would have been a very hard decsion to make , and if you drive a Cupra and go against an FR or any other equivalent VAG 170 diesel be prepared for a bit of a shock.

oh btw i still told her my Cupra was far better

phil3012 · Nov 23, 2008

I've just gone from the Cupra to the TT TDi (which is common rail rather than the PD in the FR, but the same power) and your write up is spot on.

The Cupra certainly wins for outright performance 0-60 is noticeably quicker in the Cupra, but mid range in the right gear and the TDi is probably quicker. Trouble with the diesel though is revs wise it runs out of steam a lot before the Cupra.

For day to day use on the roads unless you're driving like a maniac the TDi has amble power, the Cupra is quicker but you really need the power on the road?

I've always said and would still say for pure power a petrol is the way to go, but diesels are quick enough for rapid day to day driving with brilliant economy to boot. Unfortunately I don't think the PD is as economic as the common rail but I'm probably getting 20 mpg more like for like driving from the TT TDi than the Cupra.

Rael · Nov 23, 2008

I test drove a mk1 Cupra R 225 and a mk2 FR TDi when browsing, and I thought the diesel was quicker. I think because the power band is smaller, if really puches you in the back, whereas the petrol has the longer power bands and can hold it for longer.

I certainly plan on upping my PD140's output towards the PD170 I drove that time!

But, as said, the tractor noise from the front is the downside. I, personally, hate it!

Xe · Nov 24, 2008

But at motorway speeds isn't the diesel quieter then the petrol?

P0LKR · Nov 24, 2008

Sorry, I have to disagree. The cupra is a vastly superior car in so many ways. I have had both a tdi sport 140 (185) and the cupra. The difference is night and day.

the cat · Nov 24, 2008

The only comment I would make is about the ride. My girlfriend's dad has the FR 550 and he thinks his rides harsher than my mk2 Cupra. I'd have to agree with him.

The only problem I had with the 140PD (not an FR I know, but similar) was the noise and the fact that it wasn't that economical for a derv...

thestonegate · Nov 24, 2008

I've just changed from an 08 FR TDi 170ps to the new 58 Cupra K1, and my ride is alot less harsher than my FR was, but on the whole, I still think it was an excellent car, and sometimes had to ask myself is it a diesel! All my friends used to ask the same question also - you sure this is a diesel!

I thought it was an amazing car and miss it dearly, especially the MPG which I was getting on average about 64MPG! Brilliant, cannot fault my old car, whoever was so lucky to purchase it after I swapped mine, what an excellent ride they got!

The only reason I changed my car anyway is coz I don't do the mileage to work anymore (used to travel to Wimbledon every night for 110 miles there and back, and I wanted something I could tune more to my liking!

robdf2 · Nov 24, 2008

P0LKR said:
Sorry, I have to disagree. The cupra is a vastly superior car in so many ways. I have had both a tdi sport 140 (185) and the cupra. The difference is night and day.

What you exactly dissagreeing with m8?

BanziBarn · Nov 24, 2008

I think though the FR TDI feels quicker than it is - it fools you by the way the power comes in. But, I'm not complaining, becuase as long as my car feels fast, I don't really care if it isn't actually so!

And I agree with the comments about every day driving - because you don't need to rag it, the power is more usable than in a petrol car, especially when compared to a N/A petrol like my type-r (which is for sale if anyone is interested ;-)

AndyVTR · Nov 24, 2008

Derv vs Perv....

phil3012 · Nov 24, 2008

The Cupra has plenty of power when you need it, just an excessive amount for use on U.K roads unless you want a ban... No need to rag a Cupra to silly revs just to overtake, the power is there when you need it.

I had a go in one of SEAT's Cupras on the track day and it is a very impressive car for that sort of thing.

Regarding mid range speed though, I had an 08 Ibiza FR TDi on loan of the day when the Cupra was in for service. I think they are something like 140 bhp but by god mid range was as quick as my Cupra, could have been slightly quicker...

By the way with newer diesels the old myth of sounding like a tractor has gone. The only time the TT TDi sounds like a diesel is on tick over and when sat at lights. Much quicker than any petrol I've had at speed.

To compare the Cupra vs the FR as a like for like car taking the TDi aspect to one side, if you compare FR petrol against the Cupra they are miles apart. I test drove the FR one day the Cupra the next and went for the Cupra.

A diesel fan will always say a TDi is the better car and "much quicker than a petrol" a petrol head will call diesel the "fuel of satan".

In my opinion you will never beat a petrol for outright performance over the full rev range and the power delivery is more linear from a petrol. But diesel offers good enough power, less emissions, massively better economy and better mid range pull.

Some will say bhp is the figure to look at diesel fans will say it is all about torque. I would say in reality it is a good mixture of the two.

Mr Cellotape · Nov 24, 2008

phil3012 said:
Regarding mid range speed though, I had an 08 Ibiza FR TDi on loan of the day when the Cupra was in for service. I think they are something like 140 bhp but by god mid range was as quick as my Cupra, could have been slightly quicker...

They are 130bhp.

I have a K1 and the Mrs has my old MK4 Ibiza Cupra TDI (160) and it has to be said the TDI will upset most cars for mid range performance

cuprascott · Nov 24, 2008

BanziBarn said:
I think though the FR TDI feels quicker than it is - it fools you by the way the power comes in. But, I'm not complaining, becuase as long as my car feels fast, I don't really care if it isn't actually so!

And I agree with the comments about every day driving - because you don't need to rag it, the power is more usable than in a petrol car, especially when compared to a N/A petrol like my type-r (which is for sale if anyone is interested ;-)

What you think is quicker mate the Type R or the FR? Me and my mate are having a bit of banter about it he's got a new CTR and i keep winding him up that my Diesel is quicker!!

BanziBarn · Nov 25, 2008

cuprascott said:
What you think is quicker mate the Type R or the FR? Me and my mate are having a bit of banter about it he's got a new CTR and i keep winding him up that my Diesel is quicker!!

Well, I won't hestiate to say that in a drag race the Type-r is quicker - It just is.

But, you have to work the type-r really hard, and if you drive it in a lazy way the Leon would be all over it, if not pulling away.

For example, at low speeds in traffic, in second gear, if you want to swiftly over take a stopped bus, the leon will surge round it, but the civic won't. The only way you can get that sort of accelertation in the civic is to change into 1st to get the revs over 6k which is really awkward, and embarrising becuase it makes a racket!

On the other side, the grunt you do have in the civic comes on emmediatly as there is no turbo lag.

But in relation to your mate's car, all I hear about the new CTR is that it's slower than the old one, and that it's missing the trade mark CAM swtich over jolt at 5900rpm which if you ask me was the thing that make mine such amazing fun, a bit like the TDI surge at 1900rpm.

But, these two cars are as about as opposite as you can get, ones all about BHP and revs, and the other is all about torque - so very hard to compare.

kezFR07 · Nov 26, 2008

what about a petrol fr vs type r?

BanziBarn · Nov 28, 2008

kezFR07 said:
what about a petrol fr vs type r?

Well, the thing for me with the Petrol FR was that the linear nature of the power removed the excitement.

Yes, you've got more torque than a type-r so in the scenario I mentioned before about overtaking a bus the petrol FR would do a better job than Type-r, but for me, I want something that stands out - so in the FRTDI its the stupid lump of torque at the bottom end, in the type-r (old shape) its the cam swtich over and scream from the engine.

If I had to go down the linear power delivery route, I reckon the car would need to have much more power than 200bhp for it to excite me... or, have another unique selling poing like in the Focus ST and the noise of the engine!

phil3012 · Nov 28, 2008

The linear nature of the petrol FR and Cupra does remove the sudden surge of power you get from a TDi or an older petrol turbo. Makes the power more usable though. Turbo lag in the 2.0 TFSi is mininal as I think the turbo comes out almost straight away as is usable throughout the rev range.

Focus ST has a lovely noise but being 5 cylinders is very thirsty. As I said on another thread yesterday would be my ideal hot hatch choice, but too common, a bit chavvy and very thirsty.

Not driven a Type R but people say on that type of engine the power in there but not that usable.

kezFR07 · Nov 28, 2008

iv heard that vtec is all the rage id like to have a go in one. until then il just have to have a go with one ha

BanziBarn · Nov 30, 2008

Oh well, my days of having a go in a VTEC are over, sold the civic yesterday - I feel really sad

Just washed the Leon though and now I feel a bit better!

2zeroalpha · Nov 30, 2008

Off topic but here goes. I've gone from petrol FR to Cupra and I would say the FR felt more aggressive at lower revs. Or am I just getting used to the power?

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Cupra or FR TDI

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