8bit's Mk1 Leon Cupra R. Scarlett - as in Johansson...

8bit · Sep 1, 2010

UPDATE - First session on the rollers at the weekend there. Not entirely happy with the results. Here's the graphs:

The RR in question was at Performance HQ in Dalgety Bay. Operator was Russ who I gather used to work at Wallace Performance in Aberdeen.

First surprise was the power output - 176bhp at the wheels. This seems a bit low to me, altho Russ reckoned the boost of about 12-13psi was about right for an unmapped mk1 LCR. He also said that these cars lose about 60bhp in the transmission. Seems a bit much to me from what I've read around here tho?

The other thing he commented on was the fuelling. Looking at the second and third graphs he said that the AFR is suppose to get a little richer over the length of the graph, and also with the injector duty only hitting 76% he reckoned that was a bit low, suggesting the car was running a bit lean. He suggested this may be something to do with the MAF, possibly on the way out. If that is the case then could that account for the potentially low bhp figures?

Anyone got any ideas? I will see if I can get someone to help this weekend or onwards with some VAGCOM logging but any insight until then?

Ibiza125 · Sep 1, 2010

Yeah the fueling doesn't look to good there! You will have to get some logs and post them up here so people can give some feedback!

It will make a difference I would expect to the power output that you are seeing there on the graphs.

Boost looks spot on for a standard mapped car. Also the torque and power curves look good (all be it low).

Willie · Sep 2, 2010

Yup fuelling issue for sure, surprised he didn't stop the RR session TBH.
Get a new MAF. Have your plugs been check/changed recently?
As above, logging is the best way to tell for sure what's going on, but get a new MAF first

8bit · Sep 2, 2010

OK, thanks guys, much appreciated. I've already posted in the VAGCOM help section asking for some logging and scanning, I'll get on to Seremotors about getting a new MAF.

Actually, Willie are you home just now? If you are and you're OK with it, do you reckon it might be worth trying your MAF in my car and see if it feels any different? Or would I be as well just to get one on the basis that it's most likely that but if not then it'll be worth having a spare anyway?

Willie · Sep 3, 2010

Yup, you can easily try mine as its newish

8bit · Sep 3, 2010

Cheers Willie, will PM you now

Al · Sep 3, 2010

I can help with logging until tomorrow night.

wilz · Sep 3, 2010

i concur with the above, looks like a fuelling issue, need to see this car in the flesh sometime also

8bit · Sep 3, 2010

wilz said:
i concur with the above, looks like a fuelling issue, need to see this car in the flesh sometime also

Cool, cheers - did have some fault codes related to lambda sensors a while back that Al cleared for me at the time. The EML light never came back since but I've been wondering if maybe it was that which was causing this fuelling issue but Russ @ Performance HQ said he'd be putting his money on the MAF.

I'll stick a post up about an Aberdeen meet this month just shortly, heard and read a bit about your car too, hopefully meet you at the next one

8bit · Sep 4, 2010

Right, got some logs done today (huge thanks to Al) with both my MAF and with Willie's MAF (huge thanks to Willie also). Did blocks 002, 020, 031 and 115. Had to do two logs with each MAF, hopefully this will shed some light on things. First up, logs with my MAF:

Code:

Saturday	4	September	2010	15:22:06:65413	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0 (x64)	Data version: 20100630									
1ML 906 032 A		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	002				Group B:	020				Group C:	115			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
	0.61	1840	95.5	8.16	36.58	0.03	0	0	0	0	0.29	1840	92.5	1600	1200
	12.67	720	20.3	1.7	3.03	12.97	0	0	0	0	12.38	760	20.3	990	1000
	13.57	1200	15	1.36	3.28	13.88	0	0	0	0	13.27	960	17.3	990	1000
	14.49	1120	15	1.7	3.39	14.78	0	0	0	0	14.17	1120	15	990	1000
	15.38	1200	75.9	7.48	18.56	15.68	0	0	0	0	15.08	1120	77.4	1430	990
	16.3	1440	83.5	8.16	24.92	16.59	0	0	0	0	15.99	1360	80.5	1500	1060
	17.21	1720	93.2	8.5	31.44	17.5	0	0	0	0	16.9	1600	91.7	1660	1160
	18.11	2000	103.8	9.86	42.42	18.41	0	0	0	0	17.81	1880	99.2	1820	1270
	19.01	2360	130.1	12.24	64.22	19.32	0	0	0	0	18.7	2200	121.1	1940	1460
	19.92	2800	161.7	15.64	93.86	20.22	0	0	0	0	19.62	2640	150.4	1800	1820
	20.83	3280	154.9	14.28	98.86	21.13	0	0	0	0	20.52	3120	159.4	1810	1880
	21.73	3760	156.4	14.28	110	22.03	0	0	0	0	21.43	3600	154.9	1820	1840
	22.94	4400	155.6	14.62	132	23.24	0	0	0	0	22.68	4080	155.6	1810	1840
	23.84	4840	152.6	13.94	143.69	24.15	0	0	0	0	23.54	4680	154.1	1820	1790
	24.75	5280	154.9	14.28	156.53	25.05	0	0	0	0	24.45	5120	153.4	1840	1810
	25.65	5680	155.6	14.62	173.97	25.96	0	0	0	0	25.35	5520	154.9	1910	1870
	26.56	6080	154.1	14.62	180.94	26.87	0	0	0	0	26.25	5960	157.9	1910	1860
	27.47	6440	147.4	13.6	181.25	27.76	0	0	0	0	27.17	6280	151.1	1800	1850
	28.38	6720	145.9	13.94	168.56	28.68	0	0	0	0	28.08	6640	138.3	1690	1760
	29.27	5760	14.3	1.7	9.64	29.57	0	0	0	0	28.98	6240	13.5	990	1300
	30.18	4520	11.3	0	9.5	30.48	0	0	0	0	29.88	4960	14.3	990	1070
	31.07	3240	12.8	0	8.11	31.39	0	0	0	0	30.78	3640	12	990	1040
	31.98	2120	15	0	6.22	32.29	0	0	0	0	31.69	2480	13.5	990	1030
	32.88	1280	16.5	1.36	4.11	33.19	0	0	0	0	32.58	1480	14.3	990	1020
	33.8	1480	14.3	1.7	4.03	34.1	0	0	0	0	33.49	1200	15	990	1010
	34.7	2320	55.6	5.44	27.81	35.01	0	0	0	0	34.4	2320	50.4	990	1000
	35.61	2360	75.2	7.14	36.94	35.91	0	0	0	0	35.31	2360	69.9	1130	1060
	36.52	2360	63.2	5.1	21.5	36.82	0	0	0	0	36.21	2360	81.2	1240	1210

Code:

Saturday	4	September	2010	15:20:09:65413	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0 (x64)	Data version: 20100630									
1ML 906 032 A		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	010				Group B:	031				Group C:	115			
		RPM	Load	Load	Ign. Timing		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 %	 °BTDC	STAMP					STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
	0.32	3480	49.6	11.4	33.8	0.61	0.94	1	        	        	0.03	3440	97.7	1290	1430
	36.81	1120	15.8	3.9	-8.3	36.22	0.96	0.95	        	        	36.51	800	19.5	990	990
	37.72	1720	15.8	5.5	-6.8	37.11	1.06	0.95	        	        	37.42	1760	15.8	990	990
	38.93	1640	13.5	5.1	-7.5	38.38	0.84	1.05	        	        	38.63	1680	13.5	990	1000
	39.83	1440	13.5	4.7	-8.3	39.22	1.99	1.05	        	        	39.52	1520	13.5	990	1000
	40.73	1200	14.3	4.3	-8.3	40.12	1.99	1.05	        	        	40.44	1280	14.3	990	1000
	41.64	1080	16.5	4.3	9	41.04	1.99	0.95	        	        	41.33	1120	15.8	990	1000
	42.54	1240	77.4	58.8	3	41.94	1.45	0.95	        	        	42.24	1200	76.7	1440	990
	43.46	1520	85.7	69	13.5	42.85	0.93	0.95	        	        	43.15	1400	82.7	1560	1080
	44.36	1800	94.7	81.6	13.5	43.75	0.95	0.95	        	        	44.05	1680	92.5	1730	1180
	45.27	2120	113.5	92.5	11.3	44.66	0.96	0.95	        	        	44.95	2000	104.5	1890	1300
	46.17	2560	139.8	100	10.5	45.57	0.96	0.95	        	        	45.86	2400	130.1	1840	1580
	47.08	3040	163.2	100	6.8	46.46	0.96	0.95	        	        	46.77	2880	164.7	1810	1960
	47.98	3560	156.4	100	15	47.38	0.95	0.95	        	        	47.68	3360	157.1	1830	1840
	48.89	4040	154.9	100	16.5	48.28	0.96	0.95	        	        	48.58	3880	158.6	1820	1840
	49.79	4520	152.6	100	18.8	49.19	0.95	0.95	        	        	49.49	4360	155.6	1820	1800
	50.7	4960	152.6	100	16.5	50.09	0.95	0.95	        	        	50.4	4800	155.6	1810	1800
	51.6	5360	154.9	100	16.5	51	0.95	0.95	        	        	51.3	5240	149.6	1870	1840
	52.51	5800	161.7	100	16.5	51.9	0.95	0.95	        	        	52.22	5680	161.7	1920	1900
	53.41	6160	160.2	100	17.3	52.81	0.95	0.95	        	        	53.11	6040	157.9	1890	1850
	54.33	6480	141.4	100	21.8	53.72	0.94	0.95	        	        	54.02	6360	157.9	1790	1800
	55.22	6720	128.6	100	24	54.63	0.95	0.95	        	        	54.92	6640	137.6	1680	1740
	56.13	5440	14.3	10.6	4.5	55.54	0.79	1	        	        	55.83	5920	14.3	990	1200

And these logs were with Willie's MAF:

Code:

Saturday	4	September	2010	14:44:43:65413	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0 (x64)	Data version: 20100630									
1ML 906 032 A		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	2				Group B:	20				Group C:	115			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
	473.15	1240	13.5	0	3.33	473.44	0	0	0	0	472.84	1240	13.5	990	1000
	474.06	1240	19.5	3.4	7.25	474.65	0	0	0	0	473.75	1200	13.5	990	1000
	475.27	1480	83.5	7.82	26.19	475.57	0	0	0	0	474.96	1400	81.2	1570	1040
	476.16	1760	93.2	8.84	33.81	476.47	0	0	0	0	475.87	1680	91	1690	1140
	477.08	2080	107.5	10.2	47.47	477.37	0	0	0	0	476.77	1960	100.8	1860	1270
	477.98	2480	134.6	12.58	70.06	478.28	0	0	0	0	477.67	2320	126.3	1900	1510
	478.89	2960	169.2	15.98	95.72	479.19	0	0	0	0	478.58	2800	160.9	1810	1910
	479.79	3440	159.4	14.62	102.44	480.09	0	0	0	0	479.49	3280	161.7	1820	1850
	480.7	3920	159.4	14.28	121.72	481	0	0	0	0	480.4	3800	160.2	1840	1850
	481.6	4400	156.4	14.28	133.83	481.9	0	0	0	0	481.3	4240	157.1	1830	1810
	482.51	4880	154.9	13.94	141.44	482.82	0	0	0	0	482.21	4720	154.9	1820	1840
	483.41	5280	160.9	14.62	159.14	483.71	0	0	0	0	483.11	5160	153.4	1840	1810
	484.32	5680	164.7	14.96	178.89	484.62	0	0	0	0	484.02	5560	156.4	1920	1890
	485.23	6080	159.4	14.62	183.64	485.53	0	0	0	0	484.92	5920	164.7	1920	1880
	486.13	6400	158.6	14.62	182.36	486.44	0	0	0	0	485.84	6280	155.6	1820	1910
	487.04	6680	142.1	13.26	173.61	487.34	0	0	0	0	486.73	6600	139.8	1710	1810
	487.95	5760	14.3	1.7	9.69	488.24	0	0	0	0	487.65	6320	12	990	1390
	488.84	4600	14.3	0	11.36	489.14	0	0	0	0	488.54	5000	14.3	990	1060
	489.76	3280	12.8	0	8.69	490.04	0	0	0	0	489.45	3680	12	990	1040
	490.66	2160	14.3	0	6.06	490.95	0	0	0	0	490.36	2520	13.5	990	1020

Code:

Saturday	4	September	2010	14:58:15:65413	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0 (x64)	Data version: 20100630									
1ML 906 032 A		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	010				Group B:	031				Group C:	115			
		RPM	Load	Load	Ign. Timing		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 %	 °BTDC	STAMP					STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
	109.95	1720	13.5	5.5	-6.8	110.23	1.99	1.05	        	        	110.53	1720	14.3	990	1000
	110.85	1680	13.5	5.1	-7.5	111.14	1.99	1.05	        	        	111.44	1640	13.5	990	1000
	111.74	1600	13.5	5.1	-7.5	112.04	1.99	1.05	        	        	112.34	1520	13.5	990	1000
	112.65	1480	13.5	4.7	-7.5	112.95	1.99	1.05	        	        	113.25	1320	13.5	990	1000
	113.55	1280	13.5	4.3	-8.3	113.85	1.99	1.05	        	        	114.15	1200	13.5	990	1000
	114.46	1160	14.3	4.7	-5.3	114.76	1.99	0.95	        	        	115.06	1200	21.8	990	990
	115.36	1240	78.9	58	12	115.67	0.84	0.95	        	        	115.97	1360	81.2	1510	1040
	116.28	1440	83.5	66.7	12.8	116.57	0.97	0.95	        	        	116.87	1640	90.2	1680	1140
	117.18	1720	93.2	78.8	12.8	117.48	0.96	0.95	        	        	117.78	1960	100.8	1850	1270
	118.08	2080	108.3	91.4	11.3	118.39	0.96	0.95	        	        	118.69	2320	127.8	1890	1510
	118.99	2480	136.8	98.8	10.5	119.29	0.98	0.95	        	        	119.59	2760	160.9	1800	1900
	119.9	2960	169.9	100	3.8	120.2	0.94	0.95	        	        	120.5	3280	160.9	1820	1860
	120.8	3440	159.4	100	12	121.1	0.96	0.95	        	        	121.4	3760	158.6	1830	1830
	121.71	3920	160.9	100	14.3	122.01	0.96	0.95	        	        	122.31	4240	157.9	1820	1840
	122.61	4400	159.4	100	17.3	122.92	0.95	0.95	        	        	123.22	4720	152.6	1810	1830
	123.52	4880	155.6	100	15.8	123.82	0.95	0.95	        	        	124.44	5160	158.6	1850	1800
	124.73	5400	163.9	100	15	125.03	0.98	0.95	        	        	125.33	5680	159.4	1920	1890
	125.63	5800	160.9	100	15.8	125.93	0.94	0.95	        	        	126.23	6040	156.4	1880	1880
	126.54	6200	157.9	99.6	17.3	126.84	0.94	0.95	        	        	127.14	6400	151.1	1790	1860
	127.44	6480	150.4	99.6	19.5	127.74	0.95	0.95	        	        	128.05	6680	142.1	1640	1760
	128.35	6360	12	8.2	8.3	128.66	0.77	0.96	        	        	128.96	5320	14.3	990	1110

I'm no expert but to me it looks like the set taken with Willie's MAF look mostly identical to mine so I wouldn't have thought there was anything wrong with my MAF. The peak g/s reading is very slightly lower tho so maybe this and the bad fuelling curve are very early symptoms of it starting to fail? Or should I be looking at something else?

8bit · Sep 7, 2010

Discovered last night that you can work out the AFR by multiplying the Lambda figure by 14.7. Spent a bit of time in OpenOffice with the above log files and came up with some graphs for AFR based on the values in block 031 from the above logs (one with Willie's MAF, one with my own). Only thing is there are two Lambda figures logged in that block, I presume one is requested and the other is actual, like boost logs?

Anyway, these are the graphs that I got. Look much the same really once I get on the throttle and pin it for the run - neither richen up along the rev range, just as when on the rollers. Any thoughts?

Willie · Sep 8, 2010

The two lambda figures are the pre and post CAT lambda's.
Def a fueling issue.
Seems to not be the MAF, so that ones ruled out.
Go for the cheap fixes first like change fuel filter, clean the FPR try removing the injectors and see that there not blocked too, you might not see anything doing this but worth a shot.

8bit · Sep 8, 2010

Cheers Willie, yeh reckon it can't be the MAF given yours and mine logged near-as-dammit identical numbers. Wouldn't mind seeing block 031 logs from a healthy, standard LCR225 to compare lambda and AFR figures tho, will do some searching tonight.

To be honest I've no idea really about how to check/clean the stuff you mentioned yet, my car skills aren't there yet so that lot will have to be another trip to the garage really. Might get them to change brake fluid and gearbox oil while its' there tho, need to get both of those done too so guess it would maybe only take another hour's labour to clean out the injectors, FPR and throttle body while they're at it.

Willie · Sep 8, 2010

Good plan, then your eliminating possible issues.
New fresh brake fluid and gear box oil won't hurt

8bit · Sep 9, 2010

Well that's it booked in for brake fluid, gearbox oil and fuel filter change and a check for vacuum leaks, boost hose/TIP leaks and health check on the fuelling components at Aberdeen Volks Centre at the start of October. Still skint from the last two trips to the garage so it'll have to wait a few weeks.

Willie, just out of interest, have you got any logs showing block 031 from your car?

This better be the last of the problems with mine for a good while or it's getting sold.

Willie · Sep 10, 2010

not from memory, what's logged with block 031?

8bit · Sep 11, 2010

Block 031 is lambda figures.

8bit · Sep 13, 2010

Well, looks like I've either got a split breather hose or some leaky injector seats or seals, or both:

So those will have to go on the to-do list for the garage in a few weeks. Will get the replacement breather hose set from Forge and fit those myself in the meantime but I guess leaky injector seals or similar could logically explain the lean lambda figures. Hope that's not an expensive fix.

Might have to delete this thread and start a new one, feel like almost all I've done in this thread is moan about this sodding car...

Ibiza125 · Sep 13, 2010

Injector seals are cheap and easy to do.

8bit · Sep 13, 2010

Cheers bud, is that easy to do as in a halfwit without a spanner licence like me could do it? Does it involve getting the engine bay and my trainers covered in spilled petrol?

8bit's Mk1 Leon Cupra R. Scarlett - as in Johansson...

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