Tyre question

marklcfc

Active Member
Feb 13, 2023
51
2
I currently have Primacy 4 on all tyres. Next time I got tyres I was going to try the Cross Climate 2 tyres but I've had a few punctures towards end of last year and although repaired, one of the rear tyres is losing psi slowly and needs pumping up a few times a week.

The problem is the front two tyres are quite new, so they are staying the same but the rear two have done over 30k miles now so I am happy to replace them. I'm guessing I shouldn't have Cross Climate on the back and primacy 4 on the front though. 🤔
 

marklcfc

Active Member
Feb 13, 2023
51
2
I would suggest either 4 CrossClimate 2s on none. I have 4.
Probably have to get two more primacy then as my front ones are going to last a while yet. Can I have primacy 5 on back and keep Primacy 4 on front? Don't know the difference in the new ones
 
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H Rafiq

Active Member
Jan 5, 2022
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Yes, tyres with the most tread on the rear if it’s a FWD car. I’ve had PS4s all year round and no major issues. I did get a puncture in a PS4 once last year but that was due to a mahoosive pothole, which also cracked the alloy… I’ve also had Hankook Kinergy 4W2s all round too, and no issues (on my Prius).
 

nd-photo.nl

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Mar 6, 2012
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The reason behind it is when the rear starts breaking out. Im not such an experienced driver that I can correct that behaviour within a second. I had that happen on me once, and that was not a fun experience I can tell you.

@H Rafiq most thread depth if you have identical tyres on all 4 corners. If you have different tyres on each axle, then I would recommend the ones which have better grip on the rear axle.

If you are an experienced driver who knows what to do when the back breaks out on a FWD car, do whatever you want :thumbup:

@Glosphil Understandable, but you have control over that by which tyres you are buying off course.
 

SuperV8

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May 30, 2019
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Personally I would get 4x new Cross Climates and sell the 2x good primacy as part worn.
You can often get deals if buying 4x - you might also find pricing for winter/all season tyres quite seasonal - so you might find a cheaper price if you can wait until spring?
Having said that - I bet there are millions of cars out there with miss matched tyres - and they are not all suddenly falling into a ditch!
 
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cuthound

Active Member
Jan 26, 2024
55
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Best to put the grippiest tyres on the rear, especially on a front wheel drive car.

If the rear steps out (oversteer) on a front wheel drive car it is corrected by steering into the skid AND applying power. This isn't always possible on a public road, for example if you come around a blind bend to find an obstruction. You lift off and the back steps out (because front wheel drive cars will oversteer on sudden lift off) and can't apply power because you will hit he obstruction going even faster.

Oversteer in a front wheel drive car can be tricky to control because without applying power the front of the car is slowed down by engine braking making it want to go into a spin.

There are some techniques you can use (i.e. dipping the clutch or left foot braking, but in most on modern cars the computer won't let you and cuts the power).

If you want to learn how to drive quickly and safely I recommend taking one or more driving courses.

I personally can recommend Andy Walsh at https://www.carlimits.com/ for a track based course and Paul Ripley https://paulripley.co/ for road based courses.

Your experience can then be built up by track days or joining your local motor club and participating in road rallies or auto tests.
 

Mr Pig

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Jun 17, 2015
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I have never agreed with best tyres on rear. I treat braking & steering as much more important than the slight chance of getting the car 'out of shape' on a bend.
Years ago I thought that but I learned that when the police replace tyres they put the new ones on the rear and part-worn to the front. So I looked into it and found out why.

Basically, you're more likely to lose grip on the worn tyres and you're far less likely to catch a tail skid in front-wheel drive car than a front wheel skid.

Some years later I found this to be true myself. My wife got me a skid pan session for my birthday. One of the activities was driving in a circle and getting faster and faster until the car skidded. Two cars were used for this, one with bald front tyres and one with bald rear tyres. I couldn't get the car with bald front tyres to skid because as soon as I felt the grip start to go I automatically backed off and caught it. The guy was telling me to keep pushing until the car skidded out but I couldn't overcome my automatic instinct to catch it.

By contrast, I couldn't catch the rear-wheel skid. Not one time. As soon as the back started to go..whoosh, it was away.

Personally, I wouldn't put two tyres with widely different grip levels on my car. That could go very wrong. Of course you could drive around like that until the old tyres are worn down without anything happening but if you had to brake hard on a wet or icy road bad things could happen.
 

cuthound

Active Member
Jan 26, 2024
55
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Years ago I thought that but I learned that when the police replace tyres they put the new ones on the rear and part-worn to the front. So I looked into it and found out why.

Basically, you're more likely to lose grip on the worn tyres and you're far less likely to catch a tail skid in front-wheel drive car than a front wheel skid.

Some years later I found this to be true myself. My wife got me a skid pan session for my birthday. One of the activities was driving in a circle and getting faster and faster until the car skidded. Two cars were used for this, one with bald front tyres and one with bald rear tyres. I couldn't get the car with bald front tyres to skid because as soon as I felt the grip start to go I automatically backed off and caught it. The guy was telling me to keep pushing until the car skidded out but I couldn't overcome my automatic instinct to catch it.

By contrast, I couldn't catch the rear-wheel skid. Not one time. As soon as the back started to go..whoosh, it was away.

Personally, I wouldn't put two tyres with widely different grip levels on my car. That could go very wrong. Of course you could drive around like that until the old tyres are worn down without anything happening but if you had to brake hard on a wet or icy road bad things could happen.

It is amazing how many people think they can drive quickly and catch slides, but don't take professional instruction yet put everyone at risk by practicing their skills on public roads.

Years ago from when I was 17-18 I was like that, I used to time myself on journeys and try to beat the time. I was lucky that I didn't kill either myself or some other unlucky road user.

Then an older friend got me to join a motor club and introduced me to road rallying. Then I bought a 970cc Mini Cooper S and with sponsorship from a local engineering company who used to replace blown Triumph V8's with Rover ones in Triumph Stags, started stage rallying.

I quickly learned that I was not as quick as I thought I was and after a couple of years had to give it up as it way too expensive for me to continue as the car became less competitive. It did however remove the desire to drive dangerously on public roads.

I learnt a lot about car control in a relatively safe environment (the club used to hire the Army's tank ranges at Aldershot, Hampshire to practice on).

Since then over the years I have taken the courses listed above, plus a skid control course at Thruxton circuit (where I set the fastest time by over 5 seconds to my nearest rival in a front wheel drive car around a short slippery course - the instructor/observer was amazed but I didn't tell him I was left foot braking, I'm sure he wouldn't have approved!). Nevertheless left foot braking is a real "get out of jail free" card in a front wheel drive car in slippery conditions, but sadly most cars made in the last 15 years won't let you do it, as the computers sense you have both brake and accelerator pressed at the same time and cut the power.

Even after over 50 years of driving I'm still learning things, and doing high performance driving courses teaches you so much about car control, road positioning, observance and of course yourself.
 

Mr Pig

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Jun 17, 2015
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It is amazing how many people think they can drive quickly and catch slides, but don't take professional instruction yet put everyone at risk by practicing their skills on public roads.
My experience on that skid pan was eye opening. Even when I knew the back of the car was going to skid and was waiting for it to happen I could not catch it. I think natural ability plays a part. There were three of us on that experience, another young guy and a girl. The other guy could not catch the tail skid either but the girl did much better than either of us. She was catching the slide most of the time.

Depends on the car too. The most communicative car I've had was a Nissan Primera GT. It gave you so much feedback you could do things you couldn't do with other cars. It would also slide very progressively and predictably, with good tyres, so you could get the back end a little sideways without too much drama. None of the Leons I've driven are like that.
 
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cuthound

Active Member
Jan 26, 2024
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My experience on that skid pan was eye opening. Even when I knew the back of the car was going to skid and was waiting for it to happen I could not catch it. I think natural ability plays a part. There were three of us on that experience, another young guy and a girl. The other guy could not catch the tail skid either but the girl did much better than either of us. She was catching the slide most of the time.

Depends on the car too. The most communicative car I've had was a Nissan Primera GT. It gave you so much feedback you could do things you couldn't do with other cars. It would also slide very progressively and predictably, with good tyres, so you could get the back end a little sideways without too much drama. None of the Leons I've driven are like that.

Completely agree about the car being communicative.

Very few of the cars released over the last 20 years have been. I blame the power steering.

My Cupra ST300 4drive has really light steering, even in Cupra mode and is virtually absent of feel and feedback.

That and the lack of "adjustability" near it's limit are it's two worst features. You have to be really aggressive with the steering input whilst braking into the apex to get it to do anything but understeer. That said it is very stable and easy to drive quickly.

My youngest son has a Lotus Elise 111 S, which in complete contrast is very communicative and the cars attitude can be adjusted very easily on the throttle alone. The downside is that by modern car standards it is very physical to drive as it doesn't have power steering or servo'd brakes.
 
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Mr Pig

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Jun 17, 2015
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Completely agree about the car being communicative.

Very few of the cars released over the last 20 years have been. I blame the power steering.
I think it's a few things but the underlying cause is that manufacturers want to sell cars.

Those of us who want tight, sharp handing cars are in the minority. Most people want a car that is fast and looks sporty but is comfortable. Everything is getting softer.

I've tried the steering settings on my FR and the Cupra but it makes no difference. In Sport/Cupra mode the steering is just heavier but it doesn't make any difference to the amount of information you get. The simpler suspension on the FR actually gives you more feedback than the Cupra, or the Golf GTD I had, and it's more predicable.

The primary reason these cars understeer is that the engine is too heavy. It effects the bigger diesels and 2.0L Petrol. The Cupra has a lot of metal under that bonnet. I think the chassis is very well balanced otherwise. It's not a new problem. I remember years ago a magazine review of the Nissan Primera Si. It had the stiffer suspension from the GT but it had a smaller 1.6 engine. The reviewer said that it was actually more fun than the GT because the lighter engine made it handle better and the drop in power wasn't significant in the real world.

I thought about an Elise but it's just not a practical option for a year round daily driver. If I can get a job close to home I might revisit the idea. A friend had one and says the build was shocking. Bought it new and got rid of it as soon as the warranty was up.
 
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