Is my car a lemon?

[andycalvia]

So just looking to see if anyone has had the same amount of issues as I've had. It's a Leon PHEV FR Sport.

This is my 5th Seat I've owned and it's by far been the most problematic. The others I've had have pretty much been devoid of any issues. My car is 3 years old (I've had it for 2 years and 5 months) and it was an ex demonstrator, which now has 40,000 miles on the clock.

So far my car has had issues with the rear parking sensors, which the dealer attributes to a tiny pin ***** mark on one of the sensors, so has quoted me £500 to repair.

It had the Gear shift selector replaced under warranty as this came up with a fault.

It has an intermittent and undiagnosed issue with the Electronic Parking Brake

It has an intermittent and undiagnosed issue with the Hill Start Assist

And most recently it's starting to show the fault Electric Drive Not Working, Stop Safely and contact Workshop.

I work in a rural location and need a reliable car, this is not proving to be reliable. Has anyone else experienced such problems.

This will definitely be my last Seat/VAG car, the reliability seems to have absolutely fallen through the floor.

 

[H Rafiq]

Toyota/Honda hybrid?

 

[BoomerBoom]

There's a thread on electric drive issues in the Cupra Leon forum, which won't give any reassurance I'm afraid.

The other issues are mentioned here and some in the MK3 forum, not a large number effected but all on one car sounds indeed like a lemon.

I do struggle to understand the whole PHEV concept, the huge complexity and extra weight for such a tiny electric range makes no sense to me; a cheaper compromise would be to buy a small battery EV - to reassure range anxiety take a jerry can and briefcase generator with you on long trips.

 

[G.P]

Toyota/Honda hybrid?

Not really any more reliable/better, just different issues/problems..

 

[H Rafiq]

Not really any more reliable/better, just different issues/problems..

Less issues I’d say, and easy/low maintenance. Prius

 

[Mine was take already]

Not really any more reliable/better, just different issues/problems..

'Cupra as a brand finished last out of 32 manufacturers in the most recent 2023 What Car? Reliability Survey. The Formentor didn't do very well in the family SUV class. It finished in 33rd place out of 34 cars.11 Oct 2023'

OK, it's one survey and when you get behind the detail it's mostly the notorious infotainment issues but of you want reliability Toyota and Honda are probably the way to go.

Thing is reliability isn't the only factor in buying and it's also about what goes wrong. When a Mazda diesel goes wrong it's game over. I read up asmuch as could before buying and most of the 'reliability' issues are significant they seem to be resolved.

 

[andycalvia]

Toyota/Honda hybrid?

The issue I have with Toyota/Honda is despite their reliability, personally I just don't find their cars attractive. I think VAG group and especially Seat/Cupra make some of the best looking cars in their class. I'm starting to wonder whether Mazda or BMW may be a better choice. I've never had a Japanese car before, but certainly the Mazda 3 is a nice looking car.

 

[H Rafiq]

The issue I have with Toyota/Honda is despite their reliability, personally I just don't find their cars attractive. I think VAG group and especially Seat/Cupra make some of the best looking cars in their class. I'm starting to wonder whether Mazda or BMW may be a better choice. I've never had a Japanese car before, but certainly the Mazda 3 is a nice looking car.

Once you get past the looks, everything makes sense. The new Prius looks great. Civics aren’t too bad looking, neither are Corollas n Avensis’s (that doesn’t sound like the plural of Avensis…) I spend more time inside my cars driving them, than outside them, to worry about what they look like on the outside.

 

[Mine was take already]

The issue I have with Toyota/Honda is despite their reliability, personally I just don't find their cars attractive. I think VAG group and especially Seat/Cupra make some of the best looking cars in their class. I'm starting to wonder whether Mazda or BMW may be a better choice. I've never had a Japanese car before, but certainly the Mazda 3 is a nice looking car.

Getting rid of a Mazda to get into the Cupra. My skyactiv X was really disappointing, terrible gearbox and needed over 4000 rpm to go anywhere. Our 1 series is a MASSIVELY better car in every way.

I couldn't recommend a Mazda but my wife has been really happy with all of her BMWs, a 320d, 116i, 320i and then 128ti.

 

[andycalvia]

Getting rid of a Mazda to get into the Cupra. My skyactiv X was really disappointing, terrible gearbox and needed over 4000 rpm to go anywhere. Our 1 series is a MASSIVELY better car in every way.

I couldn't recommend a Mazda but my wife has been really happy with all of her BMWs, a 320d, 116i, 320i and then 128ti.

I was thinking maybe the M135 or the 330i.

Just as an aside. AA came to recover the car but the dealer refused to take it, until a booking had been created and a slot confirmed (Arnold Clark) and it's looking potentially, like that could be several months away. When the guy from the AA plugged the car in, it came up with yet another fault, with the fuel delivery system.

I'm honestly at the end if my tether, but there's literally nothing I can do with a faulty car, can't trade it in or sell it as it currently sits and I'm now without a car for the foreseeable.

 

[Mine was take already]

I was thinking maybe the M135 or the 330i.

Just as an aside. AA came to recover the car but the dealer refused to take it, until a booking had been created and a slot confirmed (Arnold Clark) and it's looking potentially, like that could be several months away. When the guy from the AA plugged the car in, it came up with yet another fault, with the fuel delivery system.

I'm honestly at the end if my tether, but there's literally nothing I can do with a faulty car, can't trade it in or sell it as it currently sits and I'm now without a car for the foreseeable.

That's really unacceptable. Have you contacted Seat UK? I'd also write to the head of the dealership and maybe get some advice on rejecting the car.

If you're going BMW, it's my wife's car and she was originally going 2 series coupe but fell in love with the 128 in the showroom and a quick drive sealed it. She preferred it over the 135 and I'd recommend trying both, they're very different cars to drive and you will definitely prefer one over the other. I was never a fan of the gran coupe but the 235i is a fine looking car. The 330i is a different beast again. It's a 'grown up' car to drive. Oddly the 1 series is nearly as roomy inside but the boot is quite small. She also looked at the CLA which is another option - ended up with a GLA between BMWs. No issues with any if them but our VAG cars were reliable too.

Very frustrating when a car isn't right and the dealer isn't taking things seriously.

 

[andycalvia]

That's really unacceptable. Have you contacted Seat UK? I'd also write to the head of the dealership and maybe get some advice on rejecting the car.

If you're going BMW, it's my wife's car and she was originally going 2 series coupe but fell in love with the 128 in the showroom and a quick drive sealed it. She preferred it over the 135 and I'd recommend trying both, they're very different cars to drive and you will definitely prefer one over the other. I was never a fan of the gran coupe but the 235i is a fine looking car. The 330i is a different beast again. It's a 'grown up' car to drive. Oddly the 1 series is nearly as roomy inside but the boot is quite small. She also looked at the CLA which is another option - ended up with a GLA between BMWs. No issues with any if them but our VAG cars were reliable too.

Very frustrating when a car isn't right and the dealer isn't taking things seriously.

The dealer it's going to isn't the one I purchased it from or the one that I normally deal with, unfortunately, there is only one dealer in Scotland that is a Seat/Cupra battery specialist, so it has to go there, which is Arnold Clark.

Car is booked in for the earliest date possible.....the 15th October. So car has to be recovered to them, before they can 'request, with no guarantees' a courtesy car from Seat. They won't even give me an incling of availability or timescales until the car is sitting on their forecourt

 

[Mine was take already]

The dealer it's going to isn't the one I purchased it from or the one that I normally deal with, unfortunately, there is only one dealer in Scotland that is a Seat/Cupra battery specialist, so it has to go there, which is Arnold Clark.

Car is booked in for the earliest date possible.....the 15th October. So car has to be recovered to them, before they can 'request, with no guarantees' a courtesy car from Seat. They won't even give me an incling of availability or timescales until the car is sitting on their forecourt

That's the big problem with ev and phev, a lack of technicians and parts - it's one of the things that did put me off. A friend with a Hyundai had to have his taken away on a transporter and was in a loan car for 3 months. To be fair at least they put him in one and made it hassle free. Apparently Cupra / Seat have told dealers to prioritise fleet customers ( no idea how true that is ) and private go to the back of the queue.

I'd write to Seat UK and press your case. You shouldn't need to do it but post covid and with technicians in really short supply diagnostic work is a problem.

 

[Seriously?]

That's the big problem with ev and phev, a lack of technicians and parts - it's one of the things that did put me off. A friend with a Hyundai had to have his taken away on a transporter and was in a loan car for 3 months. To be fair at least they put him in one and made it hassle free. Apparently Cupra / Seat have told dealers to prioritise fleet customers ( no idea how true that is ) and private go to the back of the queue.

I'd write to Seat UK and press your case. You shouldn't need to do it but post covid and with technicians in really short supply diagnostic work is a problem.

Yep' Friend of mine had the famous Mechatronic failure on his DSG Audi A3 E-Tron. Although his local Audi dealer is about 9 miles from him, they wouldn't touch it because it was an E-Tron and it had to be trailered 30 miles to a dealership who would. It's a bit ridiculous when a main dealer can sell you a car but can't carry out work on it.

 

[andycalvia]

So the dealer it's been taken to, Arnold Clark are hopeless. Cannot give me a courtesy car and say they cannot work on the car as the battery is at 1%. Well charge it then!! I didn't want to charge it, as the error came on when the battery had charge left in it. Why would you charge a battery that's faulty? That's like saying, yes you have a problem with fuel leaking, but let's fill up the car and hope it works.

Looks like I'm going to be without a car, tempted just to tell them to keep it.

 

[Seriously?]

So the dealer it's been taken to, Arnold Clark are hopeless. Cannot give me a courtesy car and say they cannot work on the car as the battery is at 1%. Well charge it then!! I didn't want to charge it, as the error came on when the battery had charge left in it. Why would you charge a battery that's faulty? That's like saying, yes you have a problem with fuel leaking, but let's fill up the car and hope it works.

Looks like I'm going to be without a car, tempted just to tell them to keep it.

Sounds like you're going to need to kick it upstairs to SEAT Customer Services if you're getting nowhere with Arnold Shark.

 

[andycalvia]

So just to provide an update. The car is finally being looked at today by Seat and it would appear that the coolant that cools down the batteries is leaking all over the HV batteries. That is what is causing the error, the dealer is unsure whether this will be covered under warranty and will require about £570 just in diagnostic charges going forward (if its not a warranty defect)

Scary times ahead.

 

[Seriously?]

Do you have an extended warranty on the car?

 

[andycalvia]

Do you have an extended warranty on the car?

Yes, however it's the old 'we won't know if it's a manufacturing defect until we've completed the investigation work' line.