FR Vs Cupra

[Yoshi]

Hi guys,

currently looking at replacing my MK5 Golf GTI with a Leon FR estate. The 1.8 or 2L petrol seemed a good choice as the car will be used for my local service business but I also like a drive at the weekend so I wanted to avoid the 1.5 versions really. Due to this I need it as a bit of a sleeper really that doesn't make too much noise when pulling upto customers houses etc (not sure if using eco mode would help with this?).

I narrowed it down to the 1.8/2L TSI engine as it seems a good balance of MPG and performance when needed. However they seem extremely rare and looking into the MPG for the leon cupra it doesn't appear much less at all when looking at the mixed MPG. The Leon FR estate 2L TSI averages 45mpg apparently where as the cupra is 41mpg. As the car is for business and pleasure I have to track all miles showing annually I only do 5-6k. Average MPG for my MK5 GTI is around 30-33mpg so both the FR/Cupra are better on fuel.

Question is do I go for a cupra with a few more miles for my 14-16k budget?

Thought I would ask here as I know some of the average MPG websites aren't too accurate so you guys may say actually the cupra average is 30mpg etc

 

[andy2max]

Personally I think coming from a GTI I’d want the cupra, although the FR’s are also nice. I have a 2018 Cupra DSG and noise wise you’re not going to have a problem it’s not a noisy car, especially in comfort. MPG wise I’ve averaged about 31/32mpg in the month I have had mine. Round town, or putting my foot down I get mid to high 20’s and on the 22 mile commute down the motorway I can get between 36-38mpg. 41mpg seems optimistic but manufacture figures normally are

 

[Yoshi]

Personally I think coming from a GTI I’d want the cupra, although the FR’s are also nice. I have a 2018 Cupra DSG and noise wise you’re not going to have a problem it’s not a noisy car, especially in comfort. MPG wise I’ve averaged about 31/32mpg in the month I have had mine. Round town, or putting my foot down I get mid to high 20’s and on the 22 mile commute down the motorway I can get between 36-38mpg. 41mpg seems optimistic but manufacture figures normally are

Cheers Andy,

ideally I was looking for something a bit better on fuel than my mk5 golf gti. As it's used for business also if business picks up and i'm collecting repairs a lot more I don't want fuel to be an issue. On the flip side collecting more repairs means more money I guess.

I was thinking as my GTI was 197hp out of the factory to go with the FR 2L TSI engine which is around 190bhp and does appear to be much better on fuel then get it mapped as i've read a stage 1 map can get around 245bhp

 

[Mr Mustard]

I've owned a mk5 GTi, FR1.8 tsi and FR2.0tsi. Not the ST though.

The 1.8 feels and sounds (although via a soundaktor) more like the GTi than the 2.0tsi does. It revs more freely higher up the rev range, whereas the 2.0tsi feels (and sounds) 'diesel-esk', with a lot more torque low & mid range. 0-60 measured on Vbox / Dragy - GTi - 6.45s 1.8 - 6.38s 2.0 - 6.62s

If going DSG, the 2.0tsi has the DQ381 seven speed wet clutch compared to the 1.8tsi DQ200 seven speed dry clutch. The DQ200 potentially troublesome in this application. I found the 2.0 has the better fuel consumption probably due to its higher gearing. Depending on journey type ranging from low 30s on short journeys to 50+mpg if driving conservatively on the motorway.

Both SEATS are quite stiffly sprung but not quite as well resolved as the GTi along uneven country roads. SEATs have a quicker steering turn-in with less turns lock-to lock.

I'd still rather have a Cupra though.

 

[SuperV8]

I've owned a mk5 GTi, FR1.8 tsi and FR2.0tsi. Not the ST though.

The 1.8 feels and sounds (although via a soundaktor) more like the GTi than the 2.0tsi does. It revs more freely higher up the rev range, whereas the 2.0tsi feels (and sounds) 'diesel-esk', with a lot more torque low & mid range. 0-60 measured on Vbox / Dragy - GTi - 6.45s 1.8 - 6.38s 2.0 - 6.62s

If going DSG, the 2.0tsi has the DQ381 seven speed wet clutch compared to the 1.8tsi DQ200 seven speed dry clutch. The DQ200 potentially troublesome in this application. I found the 2.0 has the better fuel consumption probably due to its higher gearing. Depending on journey type ranging from low 30s on short journeys to 50+mpg if driving conservatively on the motorway.

Both SEATS are quite stiffly sprung but not quite as well resolved as the GTi along uneven country roads. SEATs have a quicker steering turn-in with less turns lock-to lock.

I'd still rather have a Cupra though.

The FR2.0tsi uses the EA888 gen3b engine - which uses miller cycle rather than conventional Otto cycle. Basically more optimised for efficiency than power.
This explains the differences:

Behind Audi’s new “rightsized” efficient EA888 Gen.3B family | E-Hike

e-hike.net

 

[Yoshi]

Would love to see if I can stretch to a Leon Cupra 280 or the 290 model (as they have 19" wheels, the £200 per tyre scares me a little). I know finance options are better as well as they cost a little more. I would be looking to put down around £7-8k which writes of most PCP options and would have to go HP which means monthly payments are higher. If I stretched to 18k I would get a better car with PCP but obviously a baloon payment at the end.

Been looking at 1.8/2l FR estates around £15k/£16k with around 30/40k on the clock. If I was to go leon cupra estate then I would need to go higher mileage.

There is a Leon cupra 280 for just under £12,000 but it's done 97,000 miles. My current car is on 117k so it doesn't feel like a much newer car really.

In terms of the Leon cupra 280 it seems very close on fuel to my 2005 mk5 GTI golf as well. MPG seems closer to 30 which isn't ideal really. Everything adding up I think the cupra would be too much, fuel, tyres cost to purchase etc. It will be used for my business which is only 18 months old and a low mileage one is over 20k.

Did want to try DSG really if I could find an estate with DSG

 

[BigJase88]

There will be negligible fuel saving between an older 2.0l tsi and a newer 2.0l tsi

 

[oldglosracer]

The FR is relatively expensive compared to a Cupra.
If you have good no claims and live in a good area, a Cupra isn't expensive to insure.
The 19" tyres start from £130 for a Yokohama, only get up to £190 for Michelin's.
Best thing about Cupra is the adaptive dampers DCC. Comfort mode is really smooth for cruising.
On the motorway at 75mph, you can get 40mpg.

 

[Yoshi]

Sounds like you guys are saying I may as well go for a Leon Cupra 280/290 then? Especially if i'm doing around 6k miles a year as well.

When looking at finance options they don't seem to offer PCP (could it be because it's a 2015/2016 car?)?

 

[CupraOwl]

Have you considered a personal loan instead of PCP/HP? Usually get a better APR vs PCP/HP, especially for used cars.

Guess it depends on how long you are going to keep the car for and how much you can afford to pay a month. I went with a 7 year loan to keep the monthly repayments low and the APR was much better compared to the finance the dealer offered me on my Cupra.

 

[BigJase88]

Sounds like you guys are saying I may as well go for a Leon Cupra 280/290 then? Especially if i'm doing around 6k miles a year as well.

When looking at finance options they don't seem to offer PCP (could it be because it's a 2015/2016 car?)?

PCP is usually only for cars under 5 years old. So 18 plates onward now

 

[Yoshi]

Have you considered a personal loan instead of PCP/HP? Usually get a better APR vs PCP/HP, especially for used cars.

Guess it depends on how long you are going to keep the car for and how much you can afford to pay a month. I went with a 7 year loan to keep the monthly repayments low and the APR was much better compared to the finance the dealer offered me on my Cupra.

Would be looking to put 9k down and really £100/£120 a month. With insurance as well I can see me going FR to be honest. FR 190 then possibly a remap. I do have 10 years NCB but the cars insured for business so it would be £550/£600 a year.

 

[oldglosracer]

Yes a personal loan is much cheaper than a PCP on a used car.

Have a play with the loan calculator on Tesco bank and Sainsbury's bank.

Personal Loan Calculator

Use our free personal loan calculator to discover how much you could afford to borrow and what your monthly repayments might be. Subject to status.

www.tescobank.com

£120 doesn't buy you much, about £5500 over 4 years.

Buy a Seat approved used Cupra for £24k with 2 years warranty and breakdown included, £9k deposit and finance £15k over 5 years for £281 a month.

Halifax and Lloyds do PCPs also.

 

[Yoshi]

Yes a personal loan is much cheaper than a PCP on a used car.

Have a play with the loan calculator on Tesco bank and Sainsbury's bank.

Personal Loan Calculator

Use our free personal loan calculator to discover how much you could afford to borrow and what your monthly repayments might be. Subject to status.

www.tescobank.com

£120 doesn't buy you much, about £5500 over 4 years.

Buy a Seat approved used Cupra for £24k with 2 years warranty and breakdown included, £9k deposit and finance £15k over 5 years for £281 a month.

Halifax and Lloyds do PCPs also.

Thank you for the feedback

Originally my limit was 10k-12k for a GTD estate but soon realised a diesel isn't for me with the miles I do so I came across the FR 1.8/2l tsi estate and thought maybe I could push to 14-15k but now it's gone to another level with the Leon Cupra .

With my budget 9k down and £120 a month that sounds about right if I could find something for 15k.

Trouble is I have is I started my own business coming upto 2 years ago and had another side job until Christmas (whilst I spent time growing my business), just before Christmas I packed that in and just have my business. This is why I don't really want to go over £120/month especially for now.

 

[Eskilation]

Just a thought

FR 190's - run happily on 95 Octane fuel (E10), I thought to get the best Cupra's need 98+ higher octane according to the inside fuel cap designation. So big diff in fuel price if that is the case. Not sure on the Golf GTI...
Although I thought I read somewhere on here a Cupra owner saying in manual you can run lower octane fuel but may affect performance am sure someone can confirm what it says as I have a 190...

Don't worry about 190 and noise they are very quiet, I got asked once if mine was a hybrid / elec, had mine 3 years very happy and like the sleeper aspect as surprised a few GTI owners with the FR badge....

 

[Yoshi]

Just a thought

FR 190's - run happily on 95 Octane fuel (E10), I thought to get the best Cupra's need 98+ higher octane according to the inside fuel cap designation. So big diff in fuel price if that is the case. Not sure on the Golf GTI...
Although I thought I read somewhere on here a Cupra owner saying in manual you can run lower octane fuel but may affect performance am sure someone can confirm what it says as I have a 190...

Don't worry about 190 and noise they are very quiet, I got asked once if mine was a hybrid / elec, had mine 3 years very happy and like the sleeper aspect as surprised a few GTI owners with the FR badge....

I run my current 2005 GTI on 98+

Factoring everything with a fairly new business as well a leon cupra is going to be too much. Got my eye on a few FR 2L estates though

 

[DAN@ADRIAN FLUX]

Would be looking to put 9k down and really £100/£120 a month. With insurance as well I can see me going FR to be honest. FR 190 then possibly a remap. I do have 10 years NCB but the cars insured for business so it would be £550/£600 a year.

Hi.
IF you need any help with insurance for whatever vehicle you're looking at then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.

 

[Eskilation]

I run my current 2005 GTI on 98+

Factoring everything with a fairly new business as well a leon cupra is going to be too much. Got my eye on a few FR 2L estates though

Ahh so already used to 98+ so less of an issue, I am more than happy with my 190 FR, and like the stealth looks, but never had a cupra (yet)
Happy hunting... there are a few about but they are slightly rare beasts...

 

[mjj4]

Sounds like you have pretty much decided to go down the FR route, and they are great. There are pro's and cons for the FR and Cupra 280 (not so much the 290&300). If you are going DSG just be wary that the DQ200 dry clutch gearbox isn't the best, the clutch packs wear out very quickly compared with the wet clutch DQ250 or 381 found in the Cupras, and they have a measly torque limit of 250nm IIRC. So tuning potential on the FR is hugely limited by the gearbox (unless you are after a manual of course!).

The 280 Cupra's are the quietest of the non GPF models by a fair margin, but also seem to suffer the worst from water pump leak/ failure which is around £5-600 to fix at a garage. The 290/300 don't seem so prone to this from what I gather. Also the Cupra's with DCC shocks are pretty fragile and leak anywhere from 50k onwards, and as the early Cupra's are now 9 years old I'd consider that a cost that you need to allow for if you're buying at the cheap end of the market. Seat currently want £330 per front shock for DCC. These are available for half that for a genuine OEM Monroe shock but finding stock is usually near on impossible.

 

[Eskilation]

As an 190 FR owner

The FR has normal shocks the FR Sport has DCC (and some other extra bits of kit - leather / headlight wash / 18" alloys etc)
FR and FR Sport for the 2.0 190 both have GPF. Mine has not caused any problem but does make it quiet.
I have had the water pump issue (done under warranty) and new updated part installed and not been an issue since so something to check agreed
The 190's have the DQ-381 (stronger box) well mine did when I scanned it and they also have independent rear suspension like the Cupra's

Apart from water pump and a new mic for the carphone / voice interface and a suspension squeak that turned out to be the headlight leveller on the rear suspension arm (nearside) mine been great. No complaints